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This snake was coiled in some branches above a lake in Perryville, southeastern Missouri. Not too far from Snake Road, as it happens.

I got a couple of photos from a distance, then it uncoiled quickly and nose-dived into the lake.

I'm not too familiar with Nerodia in general and am having a hard time identifying this guy from the imperfect photos. I included an extra-large image here in the hopes that would make any diagnostic features clearer. Any ideas?



John

Nerodia cyclopion.

Later, KW

I can see the cyclopion in it, but it also looks like rhombifer. What diagnostic are you using to make that ID KW?

I'm going to have to agree with Chad and say Nerodia rhombifer

From The Amphibians and Reptiles of Missouri by Tom R. Johnson

Re: Nerodia cyclopion
"Presumed to occur in the natural cypress swamps of extreme southeastern Missouri.
No specimens have been taken in Missouri since 1961."
Historic range map doesn't reach Perry county.

Respectfully.

Dorsal pattern resembles rhombifer more (but is still in the realm of cyclopion), but the head doesn't look to me for rhombifer and I see scales between the labials and eye, so that's what I'm calling it. Range is close enough that it wouldn't affect my choice.

Later, KW

Thanks for the replies. I did look for that extra row of scales between upper labials and eye, and couldn't decide whether I saw them in the photo or not. There is a pronounced crease/fold from the snout to the back of the head right about where those scales are/would be. I don't know if that's normal -- I haven't seen it on other water snakes that I've encountered.

John

Let me start by disagreeing with KW, just on principle. Actually, this snake is much too boldly patterned to be cyclopion for me.

While it does have bit of a N. rhombifer look based on the pattern on the anterior end, the underside and posterior pattern lead me to Nerodia sipedon. Also, the head isn't "right" for rhombifer.

So my vote is N. sipedon pleuralis.

I agree with chrish. My first thought was sipedon. It is definately too patterned for any cyclopian I have seen, and doesn't look like a rhombifera either.

It's Nerodia sipedon.

TV

I wasn't thinking sipedon at all and I'm still leaning towards rhombifer myself...BUT, the head structre isn't like that of rhombifer and the neck pattern screams sipedon...so in other words, no clue.

I have no clue, but I'm going with Terry.
Nate

Yeah, I'm going to switch my vote. I'll side with Bob Krager and Terry V...N. sipedon.

Thanks for all the replies. I don't feel so bad about not being able to identify this snake anymore!

John

Well, it's more the quality of the photo you posted. Get a good shot from above and it'd be a lot easier.

That being said, I only ever found N.sipedon when living in MO, so I'd say that.

I do realize that with a good photo from the right angle it would not be so difficult. Probably even I could identify it in that case. But this was the only angle possible, and I was lucky to get even this lame photo before it dove into the water.

John

No worries. In western NM I had found some narrowhead gartersnakes and just disregarded them as the same nasty, smelly, biting water snakes I found in MO (although I'm sure some would say they are just that).

Definitely not sipedon. The head shape gives that away. I am going to agree that the head says cyclopion, but the rest says rhombifer. I would say I'm 90% sure it is rhombifer.

I'd say it definitely IS sipedon. The pattern and belly look just like most N. sipedon pleuralis that I've ever seen. And the shape of the head is pretty typical of larger individuals.

Not cyclopion, the body pattern is vaguely remiscent of rhombifer, but the black vertical bars seem too wide and the head is wrong for that. Probably a sipeodon (but could be rhombifer)

Troy

I'm going with sipedon. To me, it just looks like an old battle wounded snake with one of those odd shaped heads.

Using the venter as an indicator, I think it's a sipedon without a doubt.

This is the venter of a rhombifer:


...and this is a sipedon:


sipedon gets my vote.

http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/experience ... _water.cfm

Venter's are too variable.

Later, KW

I'm thinking sipedon too. My first thought was sipedon and I believe it to be correct. I also thought about diamond-backed water snake. However, it just doesn't look to me like a diamond-backed water snake.

Ryan

Fun. Any habitat photos? Just by the head, I would say it is definitely not rhombifer.......I don't think I've met a rhombifer that didn't have upward projecting eyes. It does seem too boldly patterned to be an adult cyclopion, but cyclopion is a better guess than rhombifer IMO. Also, rhombifer and sipedon are more general habitat users than cyclopion......if that snake was found outside of a floodplain, I would rule out cyclopion. Probably sipedon.

Shane

edit: and upon review, I wonder why I overlooked what made it a definite sipedon in the first place?

This is the closest I got to a habitat photo:



For a teensy bit more context, here's the water snake photo without cropping:



I didn't think to take a picture of the tree and lake after the snake took its plunge (I was too busy staring at the water to see if it would resurface, alas).

John

I consider myself a bit of a Nerodia connoisseur (:lol:) and that animal looks straight up sipedon to me.

It looks like a fairly standard sipedon to me.