2012 - Shades of oreganus
Moderator: Scott Waters
2012 - Shades of oreganus
Some of the Santa Clara County oreganus from the year.
I've seen around 35-40 snakes this year, mostly basking near rock outcrops. It's amazing the range of color and pattern that come from these guys from such a small geographic area.
First of the year was these greenish near patternless adult located by Zach Lim. There was a second under the rock as well.
A typical looking inner coast range yearling. (rock flipped)
Most of the adults that I see are fairly similar to this. Greenish and with a fading pattern.
I saw this nice golden one when out with Jim Maughn.
Big ol' ugly greenie.
A couple golden brown two footers curled up in the rocks.
One that looks like it has some molossus bloodlines
This one was chocolate brown.
Funny looking brown one.
Brown one sporting the Indian Cobra neck marking.
Tail end of a nicely marked four footer. I saw the entire snake as it circled around in the rocks.
Part of same snake.
Darn little ones hide in the smallest of places.
Big ugly greenish grey.
Same snake a few weeks later.
Nice yellow-green one.
Probably my favorite. Nice pattern, color and contrast. I just wish it were more visible.
This one was nice and had a bright yellow base segment on the rattle.
Funny head pattern on this one.
A two footer laying in the oak leaves.
A light golden one.
Dark adult venturing onto pavement in the morning.
The twins. These two took up about 70% of the area under the rock that they were flipped. DO NOT PUT YOUR FINGERS UNDER THE EDGE OF A ROCK WHEN FLIPPING!
Big light greenish one crossing the paved part of a trail.
I've seen around 35-40 snakes this year, mostly basking near rock outcrops. It's amazing the range of color and pattern that come from these guys from such a small geographic area.
First of the year was these greenish near patternless adult located by Zach Lim. There was a second under the rock as well.
A typical looking inner coast range yearling. (rock flipped)
Most of the adults that I see are fairly similar to this. Greenish and with a fading pattern.
I saw this nice golden one when out with Jim Maughn.
Big ol' ugly greenie.
A couple golden brown two footers curled up in the rocks.
One that looks like it has some molossus bloodlines
This one was chocolate brown.
Funny looking brown one.
Brown one sporting the Indian Cobra neck marking.
Tail end of a nicely marked four footer. I saw the entire snake as it circled around in the rocks.
Part of same snake.
Darn little ones hide in the smallest of places.
Big ugly greenish grey.
Same snake a few weeks later.
Nice yellow-green one.
Probably my favorite. Nice pattern, color and contrast. I just wish it were more visible.
This one was nice and had a bright yellow base segment on the rattle.
Funny head pattern on this one.
A two footer laying in the oak leaves.
A light golden one.
Dark adult venturing onto pavement in the morning.
The twins. These two took up about 70% of the area under the rock that they were flipped. DO NOT PUT YOUR FINGERS UNDER THE EDGE OF A ROCK WHEN FLIPPING!
Big light greenish one crossing the paved part of a trail.
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Awesome, Owen. The variability in color and pattern is amazing indeed, particularly for such a relatively small area.
Robert
Robert
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Awesome idea for a post and it seems you have done quite well in 2012!
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Here's a rattler that I've seen this year, but nothing like the variability you posted, nice.
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Yeah, not as much variation in the C. o. helleri as the C. o. oreganus.
When they get big and old, they can get pretty ugly:
When they get big and old, they can get pretty ugly:
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Nice variation indeed Owen, great idea! I like the last golden one the best. Just love those yellows.
Here are a few from this year.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
The gold one was too fast to get a better picture of, but I got one of the minty green one.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
The Family! by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Someone was hungry! Or just really depressed.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
This was the first one of the year, February 1st.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Here are a few from this year.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
The gold one was too fast to get a better picture of, but I got one of the minty green one.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
The Family! by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Someone was hungry! Or just really depressed.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
This was the first one of the year, February 1st.
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Nick, this one of yours looks like one of it's parents got busy with a ball python:
Wicked tail pattern
Wicked tail pattern
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Ball python? I totally see that! This one proves that the Florida burms have hit the west coast. Right?
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by Nick Esquivel, on Flickr
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Owen - I like the lemony sweetness on Zach's find. Do you have any pics of the big green from 'a few' years back? Now, that was GREEN
Nick- That funky looking juvie on the rock is an absolute beauty!!
Nick- That funky looking juvie on the rock is an absolute beauty!!
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Beautiful shots, all. Here are a few more from this year.
The same one Owen posted above, only photographed more poorly:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
A similar one from elsewhere in that park:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
These two San Mateoids had just emerged, and were having an ugly-off:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
I quite like this one:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
These are the standard issue:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Santa Cruz neo:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
This Sonoma Co. one had a weirdly pink tongue, I think:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
It was a handsome one, though:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Finally, a crammed one:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
The same one Owen posted above, only photographed more poorly:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
A similar one from elsewhere in that park:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
These two San Mateoids had just emerged, and were having an ugly-off:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
I quite like this one:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
These are the standard issue:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Santa Cruz neo:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
This Sonoma Co. one had a weirdly pink tongue, I think:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
It was a handsome one, though:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Finally, a crammed one:
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake, Crotalus oreganus oreganus by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Weird pink tongue! I have never seen that before. Nice shots
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Jim - Some definite guapos in there. Always fun to see the uber-uglies too!
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Its not a helleri, and helleri are more variable than you might think.Owen wrote:Yeah, not as much variation in the C. o. helleri as the C. o. oreganus.
When they get big and old, they can get pretty ugly:
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
I'll buy into that! The smaller more diamond shaped blotches remind me of helleri of lutosus, but I know those Carrizo ones and those in the southern stretches can be a bit different. I never said helleri weren't variable, just not as much variation as oreganus. All the ones that I pictured were from within 4 linear miles of each other with the exception of the first which was from across the valley.rpecora wrote:Its not a helleri, and helleri are more variable than you might think.Owen wrote:Yeah, not as much variation in the C. o. helleri as the C. o. oreganus.
When they get big and old, they can get pretty ugly:
- geckoguy747
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
this is an awesome thread! so many cool snakes!
josh
josh
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Cool northerns!
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Actually it really isn't fair for me to get in on this since the snake I posted isn't from CA. Sorry.
- M.J.FRANETOVICH
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Az. Black
- Calfirecap
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Great thread guys! Wish I could contribute, but I haven't seen a single oreganus, or any crot for that matter this year.
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Some things just elude us. I haven't seen an SF Aligator Lizard yet this year.Calfirecap wrote:Great thread guys! Wish I could contribute, but I haven't seen a single oreganus, or any crot for that matter this year.
- Dutchocrat
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Just found this yearling this afternoon
I guess that you would call this "standard issue" coloring
I guess that you would call this "standard issue" coloring
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
If Crotes still didn't make me a tad nervous in the field, I'd have some good pics to post haha!
My favorite Oreganus I have found in San Mateo county,
My favorite Oreganus I have found in San Mateo county,
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Brilliant post, Owen. Just now sat down and had the time to enjoy it. I've been longing to see something like this where the variability of a ssp is documented. Great stuff !
reako45
reako45
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Great idea for a post!
Here is the most green one I have found
I really liked this light colored one
and lastly this shows the difference in color that can be found under one board!
Here is the most green one I have found
I really liked this light colored one
and lastly this shows the difference in color that can be found under one board!
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Nice snake, Neil. It looks a lot like the last one on my original post (light green).
Here's my first of the year from last year. A basking high contrast baby from the southern Santa Cruz Mtns.
Here's my first of the year from last year. A basking high contrast baby from the southern Santa Cruz Mtns.
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Nick, that one has a very similar look to the one I had with a yellow base segment (18th down). A nice golden with brown blotches.
- todd battey
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Nice variety of C. oreganus color morphs. Very nice!
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Owen, I see what you mean, hopefully you will see it again. I want a full body shot, or more of the tail
Nick
Nick
- Jeremy Westerman
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Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Does anyone have pics from the intergrade or contact zone of Crotalus oreganus oreganus and C.o. lutosus? I am dying to see a lutosusXoreganus intergrade. Supposed great Basin/Northern Pacific contact zone in Western Oregon and Southern Idaho possibly across Western/northern Nevada? Other Western rattlesnake intergrades or hybrid pics would be cool too.
Sweet NORPACs never seen one in the field, I haven't surveyed that far West. The golden norpacs with the chocolate brown look most reminiscent of Great Basin rattlesnakes but we get some with a greenish hue as well, maybe not as green as your Big An' Uglies and certainly not as green as a Prairie C.viridis Our average color for lutosus is straw yellow with brownish black blotches or greyish background with faded blotches of slightly darker color
Sweet NORPACs never seen one in the field, I haven't surveyed that far West. The golden norpacs with the chocolate brown look most reminiscent of Great Basin rattlesnakes but we get some with a greenish hue as well, maybe not as green as your Big An' Uglies and certainly not as green as a Prairie C.viridis Our average color for lutosus is straw yellow with brownish black blotches or greyish background with faded blotches of slightly darker color
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Great post! That pic #13 of the juvenile wedged into the rocks and peeking out is awesome, love it.
The variability of C. o. oreganus is the one thing that helps me cope with the single crote situation in (most of) Northern California. At least they don't all look the same. Having spent most of my life in this area, I can say that I don't have a personal idea of what a "typical" NorPac looks like. They are just too variable.
The variability of C. o. oreganus is the one thing that helps me cope with the single crote situation in (most of) Northern California. At least they don't all look the same. Having spent most of my life in this area, I can say that I don't have a personal idea of what a "typical" NorPac looks like. They are just too variable.
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Flash forward to 2013. While my 2012 photos were all Santa Clara County, here's a couple SLO NorPacs to throw a little more variation on the theme:
Golden eye:
Definitely not the typical 'green' Bay Area variety:
Golden eye:
Definitely not the typical 'green' Bay Area variety:
Re: 2012 - Shades of oreganus
Jeremy, I've got some experience with the lutosus/oreganus intergrade zone, but only from two locations in Central Oregon. I'm very interested in figuring out where the ranges overlap and I've seen photos of intergrades from NorCal, and NW Idaho, but I haven't poked around in those areas yet. An old school herper, Alan St. John has observed intergrades from all across Oregon and helped direct me to one of the locations I find them. He has some good pictures of them on iNat, and in the first edition of his field guide to reptiles of the PNW.Jeremy Westerman wrote: ↑June 22nd, 2012, 2:00 pm Does anyone have pics from the intergrade or contact zone of Crotalus oreganus oreganus and C.o. lutosus? I am dying to see a lutosusXoreganus intergrade. Supposed great Basin/Northern Pacific contact zone in Western Oregon and Southern Idaho possibly across Western/northern Nevada? Other Western rattlesnake intergrades or hybrid pics would be cool too.
Sweet NORPACs never seen one in the field, I haven't surveyed that far West. The golden norpacs with the chocolate brown look most reminiscent of Great Basin rattlesnakes but we get some with a greenish hue as well, maybe not as green as your Big An' Uglies and certainly not as green as a Prairie C.viridis Our average color for lutosus is straw yellow with brownish black blotches or greyish background with faded blotches of slightly darker color
Here's an example of both subspecies and a suspected intergrade at The Reptile Zone shop in Bend, Or. Occasionally random people bring in wc snakes and lizards, so the exact locality of the suspected intergrade is unknown, but it's likely from Central OR. Here's some examples of intergrades I've road cruised roughly 35ish miles NW of "pure" lutosus. Each individual was cruised within 1-10 miles apart from each other. It's not uncommon to find classic traditional looking norpacs on this road as well. Crook County, OR. Here's some intergrades from a den site roughly 70ish miles NW from "pure" lutosus. Deschutes County, OR. 1st pic is how they typically look at this den. 2nd, is an example of a NorPac looking intergrade, and last pic is of an aberrant individual from this den site. I've observed her 3 years in a row and I call her "Ingred the intergrade"
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