N. rhombifer care?

Captive care and husbandry.

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Paul White
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N. rhombifer care?

Post by Paul White »

I got a call from a local petshop. Woman brought in what does appear to be a diamondback watersnake that looks like a pretty young one--less than 18". Said her cat dragged it in. It's got some wounds about 1/3 of the way down it's body but they're healing up. The petshop says they may just give it to me cause the woman wants it gone and they don't know what the hell to do with it and they're not sure if it's legal to actually sell (and besides how many people WANT one?). Does anyone have experience caring for these, or any nerodia? I find yellow bellies all the dang time up here but haven't found these (WHY WHY WHY do non herpers find cool snakes when I can't?!?).

My *guess* would be that they're very much a semi-aquatic snake, more so than Thamnophis, just based on where I find them? The woman whose cat dragged it in lives right by a big old drainage pond so I am not too surprised. Like go with a decent sized water bowl (maybe a kitty litter pan?) with some plastic plants in it (or maybe just anacrhis or similar aquatic plants) for cover, and a good dry substrate with fairly standard N. American colubrid temps? Do these adapt well to rodents or would I be looking at needing to get tilapia or other large fish eventually?
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Scott Waters
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Scott Waters »

Water snakes are arguably the easiest snakes to keep in captivity. Water bowl, moderate temps, and plenty of fish. You can use almost any type of fish. Maybe avoid catfish, though. As they grow, increase the size of the fish, frozen/thawed would be most advisable. Best of luck.
Paul White
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Paul White »

where do you find large f/t fish besides the grocery store? Those are expensive as hell.
And how much food/week are we talking?
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Don Becker
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Don Becker »

My sipedon currently eats small gold fish, he has taken the rosy reds in the past. I haven't been able to get him to take thawed fish yet. As Scott said, just a large water dish, and moderate temps. In my case, the water dish is large enough for the fish to swim in to stimulate the snake.
ThomWild
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by ThomWild »

***I don't know if this is the place to get into the thiaminase debate and what fish are safe or not safe to use as feeders, so here is a link if you want to read up on that: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general ... -info.html

If it will be staying as a pet you can switch them over to f/t silversides, strips of "safe" fish, or mice. The best way that I have found is add a ground up fish relish to a pinky, if they only go for the live stuff I have had success putting one live fish in a bowl with a couple f/t fish or even pinkies. The live fish usually gets it stimulated enough to have it go for anything. All three of mine are now devouring f/t mice. Care is just as Scott said the only thing you need to watch for is it getting too hot, they cook quickly and won't eat if temps are too high so no need for sup heat, room temp is just fine. A bowl big enough to soak in is enough although you could go all out on a water/land set up. I keep mine with a large water bowl on paper towels or carefresh with a hide.

If it is just weathering the storm and will eventually be released live fish are the easiest and short term you don't need to worry about "safe" fish.

-Thomas
Paul White
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Paul White »

So eating mice is OK for them? I'd heard debates (a decade+ ago) with garters about if it was safe to feed them primarily mice. Wsn't sure if the same issue would happen with Nerodia.

I can't get to the area i'm 99% sure it came from so it *probably* won't get released (that and it'll be near a ton of exotics). The city has these 3-4 big drainage areas--I hesitate to call them ponds--and they're fenced off well away from the water. I'm sure cats, snakes birds, etc get in and out but I wouldn't wnt to try to get through the fence myself to get near the water to turn it loose.
ThomWild
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by ThomWild »

Paul White wrote:So eating mice is OK for them? I'd heard debates (a decade+ ago) with garters about if it was safe to feed them primarily mice. Wsn't sure if the same issue would happen with Nerodia.
This debate still goes on, however no long term studies have been done, and every major breeder of thamnophis that I know use at very minimum rodents as the main source with some variety thrown in every once in awhile; some only use rodents. Nerodia fits in that same general lump.

-Thomas
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justinm
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by justinm »

Paul I've heard of people feeding strips of fish to snakes. They don't seem to notice the difference. I used to keep some Liophis, and they only took fish or frogs. I had a steady supply of Cichlids from the local pet shop.
Paul White
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Paul White »

strips would be great; I can buy frozen tiliapia or swazi pretty cheap at Sam's (granted I might eat my snakes food that way...hmmm pepper dry rub, dry roasted at 400 for 20 minutes...drool). If it's safe to feed rodents and it'll take rodents Id' rather do that. But if not I'll go with fish. I may try to do a variety--fish one week rat the next.
ThomWild
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by ThomWild »

Paul White wrote:I may try to do a variety--fish one week rat the next.
That is a good way to go.

-Thomas
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Dan Krull
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Dan Krull »

I have a large rhombifer that I use for talks, and I have kept many watersnakes in the past.

They will eat fish and fish parts (fillets) - I would buy a fishing pole and go to your local creek and catch appropriately sized fish to feed it.

They will also eat any amphibian. Road cruising on rainy nights for frogs and toads is VERY productive. OR you can catch them by hand, or net by day around ponds.

They will also take scented rodents. I don't do it, because it's cheaper for me to feed wild food, but they will eat HUGE rats when they are full grown.

Dan
Jimi
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Jimi »

You're in for some fun. Watersnakes are cool - very under-rated. And yes, easy to keep.

I'd go with rodents. It's just less messy and stinky, during and after the feedings. And I think you'll have a little less cleaning.

I predict that animal is going to become your garbage disposal.
Paul White
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Paul White »

sorry for the lack of followup; the snake passed away shortly after I posted the OP :(
Jimi
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Jimi »

Sorry to hear that! Did the cat bites go all nasty? Still kinda weird...water snakes are tough.

Guess I'll keep my day job and not go into the prediction business, ha ha. Seriously though, the big water snakes are definitely something different (some folks here are probably thinking "Yeah - like an indigo that bites...forget it!"). But if you ever get another chance to raise one up...think about it.

Cheers,
Jimi
Paul White
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by Paul White »

I didn't ever get possession of it so I can't really say.

I really wouldn't object. Hell, I may collect a juvy yellow belly next year for kicks and giggles--I find yellows all the dang time and they're sort of neat (actually a fasciatus would rock too but we don't get 'em here-next time I visit my folks though...)
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BillMcGighan
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Re: N. rhombifer care?

Post by BillMcGighan »

IMHO most of Nerodia become docile animals and voracious feeders within a short time in captivity. I kept many of them when I was young.

Even large, wild “sipedon”, that normally may bite the snot out of you with very large teeth (NOT TO MENTION THE MUSK), become like kittens after a short period in captivity with adequate husbandry.

I am not qualified to discuss the threat of thiaminase, but, years ago, I did lose a long term captive that seemed to succumb to it. I used this animal in school lectures and trusted it totally.

The 4 years that this animal thrived, she was fed a variety of fresh pan fish and frogs, caught at a local lake.
The animal started showing very, very subtle tremors then died suddenly.

My probable mistake, I later discovered while attending a guest lecture by Dr. Fred Fry, was changing the protocol for convenience to feeding it frozen fish, which had been frozen for more than a month.

Dr. Fry recommended a vitamin B1 treatment to correct this.
In his book, Biomedical and Surgical Aspects of Captive Reptile Husbandry, he even recommends supplementing the fish diet with a few young mice or rats.

At the risk of referring to the “taboo” website, there are some interesting discussions on this:
http://forum."not allowed"/garter/messages/13452.html

An interesting guide to suggested fish to use and not use:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn= ... 5X&page=64
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