a new nose...

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Kent VanSooy
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a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 7th, 2013, 3:29 pm

...ah, but the question is, what kind of nose? Anyone want to hazard a guess? Not a longnose this time!


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repaphin
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Re: a new nose...

Post by repaphin » September 7th, 2013, 3:48 pm

Glossy snake?

daniel
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Re: a new nose...

Post by daniel » September 7th, 2013, 5:58 pm

I was gonna guess glossy too.

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Re: a new nose...

Post by hellihooks » September 7th, 2013, 6:13 pm

my 1st guess, as well.

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Cole Grover
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Cole Grover » September 7th, 2013, 6:26 pm

Senticolis triapsis.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kelly Mc » September 7th, 2013, 6:37 pm

Cole Grover wrote:Senticolis triapsis.

Yeah that long loreal region scretches out like an italian sportscar

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 8th, 2013, 7:10 am

Cole and Kelly, bravo! (and Kelly, I continue to enjoy your far-flung yet spot-on analogies). The neos do indeed look like glossy snakes, but with a slightly greenish tint (which doesn't show up well in the photos). If I were to see a neo on the road, I'd have to look carefully to decide if it was a glossy or a green rat.

The young do exceptionally well in captivity - they all eat readily and grow fast. My adult pair produces good eggs most years (I think I've been lucky in that regard).

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daniel
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Re: a new nose...

Post by daniel » September 8th, 2013, 7:34 am

Very cool!

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Re: a new nose...

Post by Zach_Lim » September 8th, 2013, 9:08 pm

I am very interested in Senticolis. Beautiful.

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Cole Grover
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Cole Grover » September 9th, 2013, 6:49 am

Kent,

Cool animals, no doubt. Are yours locality specific? How large are they as hatchlings? I know a few of you California guys (you, Merker, etc.) have been having some success with them. They're an interesting species, and one that I've always considered getting into as something "different" from the norm (see below) in my collection.

-Cole

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 9th, 2013, 8:50 am

They are locality-specific (from the Santa Ritas). The hatchlings are BIG, probably 16". My adult female is 66" long, and lays 6 to 8 large eggs. The neos feed readily on fuzzy mice, pinkies are too small for them. I know Merker has struggled some with infertility, but for whatever reason that hasn't been a big problem with mine. The pair has produced good eggs three out of the last four years, resulting in 21 viable offspring. I maintain them like my other colubrids, and don't do anything special, other than feed them a pile of mice instead of just a single one.

PS is that a pale milk? I've always thought they were gorgeous!

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Cole Grover
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Cole Grover » September 9th, 2013, 9:05 am

Kent,

Thanks for the info. They're a cool animal - I may have to seriously consider them. They'd be a change of pace from the little banded shoe laces I generally hatch! Do you keep them in screen-topped enclosures or a rack system?

Yes, that's a pale milk from Sheridan Co., Nebraska lineage. I work primarily with locality-specific members of the triangulum group, with an especially heavy focus on L. t. multistrata. Here's another:
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-Cole

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Re: a new nose...

Post by Ross Padilla » September 9th, 2013, 12:43 pm

I guessed it too!


Pats him self on the back lol

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Re: a new nose...

Post by Zach_Lim » September 9th, 2013, 1:20 pm

Cole, those multi's are awesome!

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 9th, 2013, 4:01 pm

Cole, I keep my adults in the "Applegate" drawer-style units. They're fairly roomy, and do have a screened top - I've always been a big believer in adequate ventilation. The adults are fairly skittish, but spend most of their time in the bottom drawer unit (out of sight), and have never rubbed their noses. In my experience so far, they are trouble-free animals.

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 10th, 2013, 4:39 pm

The adult pair were both up at the same time last night....

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Here's the adult female a little closer. They lose every trace of the neo pattern.

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Re: a new nose...

Post by tbrock » September 11th, 2013, 5:07 am

Hello Kent - nice Northern Green Rats! I haven't posted at FHF in a long time, but a friend sent me a link to this thread. I have been breeding S. t. intermedia since 2010 - starting with a LTC pair of Santa Rita Mountains (Mt. Hopkins) animals, and also a LTC pair from the Pajarito Mountains since last year. Both females have double clutched for me every year I have bred them, and the Pajarito female (which is a large 55 inch long animal) laid what I believe could be a record sized clutch of 11 eggs earlier this year. I am writing this large clutch up as a possible record, and I have also written three other articles on myy experiences with breeding this species, for the SWCHR Bulletin. Do you (or anyone else) know of a larger or similar sized clutch? The largest clutch size mentioned in literature for this species is 9 eggs (Schulz, 1996; Brennan and Holycross, 2006). Below are photos of the female with the eggs, with one egg left to go. The eggs in the nesting tub before I moved them, and a photo of the babies freshly hatched.

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-Toby Brock

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 11th, 2013, 7:04 am

Wow Toby, that's some great fertility! Do you put the pairs back together after the first clutch, or does the female just double-clutch on her own? My biggest clutch to date is 8 good eggs (but last year when the eggs were all bad, there were bunches of little infertile ones, probably 15 or so). My pair is from the northern side of the Santa Ritas. Have any of your offspring reached breeding size yet? I haven't heard of any of mine doing so. The picture of your female with eggs shows just how large these eggs are....which produce neos which are almost unbelievably big.

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Cole Grover
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Cole Grover » September 11th, 2013, 7:31 am

Kent and Toby,

Great photos, guys. Those are some bad-ass snakes. Do either of you cool your Senticolis down significantly during the winter (not that either of you really has "winter" where you live...), or do you keep them up and feeding all year?

-Cole

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justinm
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Re: a new nose...

Post by justinm » September 11th, 2013, 8:01 am

Wow,

These Senticolis are just fantastic animals it's really nice to hear that they do well as youngsters in captivity.

tbrock
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Re: a new nose...

Post by tbrock » September 11th, 2013, 8:03 am

Kent VanSooy wrote:Wow Toby, that's some great fertility! Do you put the pairs back together after the first clutch, or does the female just double-clutch on her own? My biggest clutch to date is 8 good eggs (but last year when the eggs were all bad, there were bunches of little infertile ones, probably 15 or so). My pair is from the northern side of the Santa Ritas. Have any of your offspring reached breeding size yet? I haven't heard of any of mine doing so. The picture of your female with eggs shows just how large these eggs are....which produce neos which are almost unbelievably big.
Kent - I don't pair them after the first clutch, although I may have paired the Ritas once for a short time while cleaning their tubs - during the first year I bred them. This year was strange for breeding in my snake room - the two big females laid very nice, big clutches for the first clutch of the season, but the second clutches were mostly slugs, with two possibly good eggs from each (the Pajarito female laid 7 slugs before the two good eggs). In past years, the second clutches have been much better than this.

Were the 15 infertiles you speak of from the same clutch? If so, do you mind if I note that in my write-up on the big 11 egg clutch? I will give you credit for the data - pers. comm. ...

I have a pair of green rats from the 2010 clutches - a female from my Ritas, and male from the Pajaritos (my friend who gifted me the Pajaritos last year also gifted me this 2010 male), which I tried to breed this year to make generics. The female laid 2 large infertile eggs, and reabsorbed a third. The pair are definitely big and old enough to breed and produce, but I think the male may have been too inexperienced and didn't get the job done. I haven't heard from anyone who got my 2010 green rats on whether or not they have tried to breed them yet.

Speaking of the size of the eggs and babies, I weigh most of them, and pretty much all of mine come out of the egg weighing over 20 grams - last year I had a Pajarito neonate which weighed 36 grams.

tbrock
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Re: a new nose...

Post by tbrock » September 11th, 2013, 8:14 am

Cole Grover wrote:Kent and Toby,

Great photos, guys. Those are some bad-ass snakes. Do either of you cool your Senticolis down significantly during the winter (not that either of you really has "winter" where you live...), or do you keep them up and feeding all year?

-Cole
Thanks Cole! I live in coastal south Texas, which is subtropical with very warm winters usually, so I use artificial cooling for my snakes, including the local ones. I have a small window unit a/c in the snake room which I use to try to keep room temps down into at least the middle 60's F. I try for two months of cooling for the green rats, but also provide them with a warm spot in the 70's throughout winter - per Gerold Merker's (writing as Thurgess Cranston) articles on them. I feel it is best to err on the safe side with them. This year, I only gave them one month of cooling because it was even warmer than usual, and I had to run the window unit constantly - and the electric bill was killing me. Speaking of feeding during the winter though - I did that during the first winter I cooled them. I did not have the window unit at that time, and kept the room at unheated temps - which were sometimes very warm for extended periods. I got worried about them maybe using up to many calories, so I went ahead and fed them after turning the heat back on in the room - then cooled them again after they had digested for a couple weeks, and as weather allowed. I did this probably 3 times throughout the winter, and they produced the healthiest clutch I have ever gotten from them that spring.

tbrock
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Re: a new nose...

Post by tbrock » September 11th, 2013, 8:16 am

justinm wrote:Wow,

These Senticolis are just fantastic animals it's really nice to hear that they do well as youngsters in captivity.
Some of mine will only want live mice as babies, and some will start on f/t very easily. I breed mice for them and my subocs. They typically hatch with very large yolk boluses, and sometimes take quite a while before they become hungry - in my experience.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kelly Mc » September 11th, 2013, 3:20 pm

I had one "vigorous youth" get out - traveled downstairs and into a hopper bin in the rodent room, i dont know how many were in it but he ate every one - and was too lumpy to get out of the bin :lol:

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Kent VanSooy
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kent VanSooy » September 11th, 2013, 5:38 pm

Kelly, that reminds me of the story with the kingsnake in my mouse article.

Toby, yes, the 15 infertile eggs were all in one clutch (but they were clearly smaller than normal, and had the yucky slimy yellowness going). Feel free to use that datum if it's useful.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: a new nose...

Post by Kelly Mc » September 11th, 2013, 6:17 pm

Another snake - a baby sinaloan disappeared - i thought she mustve got out during feeding - or mishap mix up retrieving the feeding bags as i feed the babies in upright set paper bags - i was really mad at myself, couldnt find her anywhere, months passed and she was spotted on the crawl near the front counter - Twice as Big! No dehydration, looked great. We keep a supply of feeder mice at the counter for the Live people, and apparently this little girl was living in the counter which is a big, hollow desk like structure. She was savvy - never over glutted herself or went into the adult bins where they would have eaten her probably, and got water by taking nocturnal treks into the fish room where there are frequent puddles left on the cement floor from the siphon.

I still have that snake and to this day she has a distinct preference for live mice. Wild Child.

On a return to the original species of topic - i was called to a nice ladies house who said she had " a Green Snake" living in her backyard. I went over there and up in a tree was a nice looking Green Rat. I couldnt get to it though.

tbrock
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Re: a new nose...

Post by tbrock » September 12th, 2013, 6:24 am

Kent VanSooy wrote:Kelly, that reminds me of the story with the kingsnake in my mouse article.

Toby, yes, the 15 infertile eggs were all in one clutch (but they were clearly smaller than normal, and had the yucky slimy yellowness going). Feel free to use that datum if it's useful.
Thanks Kent - that is very interesting info. And - the largest clutch of good eggs has been 8, is that correct? That is still a fairly large clutch IMO - my Pajarito female's first clutch of 2012 was 8 huge eggs too, and the big (11 eggs) first clutch of this year came as a complete surprise.

-Toby

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