Is there any definitive way of telling the two apart?
Obviously if you're out herping it's a different story if there are area's where one doesn't exist. But in captivity, there are so many atrox's that look like ruber. But the keepers are adamant that it's an atrox, vice versa.
I've heard that the first lower labial scale on each side, is split horizontally..but I've seen pictures of atrox with this too.
I'm sure in captivity, a lot of the atrox's are bred to ruber without knowing, and a lot of the rubers out there are actually atrox.
The scale counts overlap too I think, so that isn't a definitive way of defining either.
Not sure if this is the correct area to post this in, feel free to move it if not.
C.ruber or C.atrox
Moderator: Scott Waters
Re: C.ruber or C.atrox
Not sure I understand your question....
Are you asking how to differentiate C. atrox and C. ruber in the field or in captivity?
In the field, it's easy....atrox doesn't come into contact with ruber (there's some debate about this however....even if the two come into contact, the contact zone is small, so you can pretty much tell if it's atrox or ruber by where you are).
In captivity, it's anyone's guess as these two snakes will readily breed to each other and produce offspring. Head scalation/counts would be your best bet.
-Kris
Are you asking how to differentiate C. atrox and C. ruber in the field or in captivity?
In the field, it's easy....atrox doesn't come into contact with ruber (there's some debate about this however....even if the two come into contact, the contact zone is small, so you can pretty much tell if it's atrox or ruber by where you are).
In captivity, it's anyone's guess as these two snakes will readily breed to each other and produce offspring. Head scalation/counts would be your best bet.
-Kris
Re: C.ruber or C.atrox
Hi, sorry my question was about in captivity.azatrox wrote:Not sure I understand your question....
Are you asking how to differentiate C. atrox and C. ruber in the field or in captivity?
In the field, it's easy....atrox doesn't come into contact with ruber (there's some debate about this however....even if the two come into contact, the contact zone is small, so you can pretty much tell if it's atrox or ruber by where you are).
In captivity, it's anyone's guess as these two snakes will readily breed to each other and produce offspring. Head scalation/counts would be your best bet.
-Kris
Doesn't the scale counts overlap with both species?
Thanks.
- Don Cascabel
- Posts: 201
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:44 am
- Location: Colima, México
Re: C.ruber or C.atrox
I've seen atrox in ruber country on the San Diego - Imperial border on the west side of Ocotillo.... just saying!
- regalringneck
- Posts: 563
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:20 am
Re: C.ruber or C.atrox
... Holas, Senor Sonora, Como es su vida, monte y encanta?
I cant tell them apart either, but if you scratch em between the ears, generally, the atrox will bite you & the ruber will just wag its tale ... and ill bet if someone looks at the dna from those coachella diamondbacks ... they align w/ ruber.
I cant tell them apart either, but if you scratch em between the ears, generally, the atrox will bite you & the ruber will just wag its tale ... and ill bet if someone looks at the dna from those coachella diamondbacks ... they align w/ ruber.
Re: C.ruber or C.atrox
DNA is likely the only way, but out here in the coachella valley our wdb are visually and behaviorally different. The wdb enter the foothills of the Santa Rosa mtns vis a vis my last voucher (awaiting someone who can do the DNA work). Ruber are quite common to the west however.
Cheers
Lat
Cheers
Lat
- Correcamino
- Posts: 444
- Joined: June 10th, 2010, 12:50 pm
Re: C.ruber or C.atrox
I'm waiting for a truely complete DNA workup across the range. The only comparisons that have been done were on atrox from mainland Sonora and rubers across the gulf in Baja, with lots of water and eons between them. Not what I call a thorough study. However, I fully believe in Socal there could still be gene flow and they are actually still one species. I have seen atrox from so-cal that I would challenge ANYONE to visually distinguish from ruber lucasensis in southern Baja. And atrox at the extreme eastern part of the range can look amazingly similar also.
Cheers,
Rich
Cheers,
Rich