C.ruber or C.atrox

Captive care and husbandry.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
Crotalid
Posts: 15
Joined: April 6th, 2013, 9:47 am

C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by Crotalid »

Is there any definitive way of telling the two apart?

Obviously if you're out herping it's a different story if there are area's where one doesn't exist. But in captivity, there are so many atrox's that look like ruber. But the keepers are adamant that it's an atrox, vice versa.

I've heard that the first lower labial scale on each side, is split horizontally..but I've seen pictures of atrox with this too.

I'm sure in captivity, a lot of the atrox's are bred to ruber without knowing, and a lot of the rubers out there are actually atrox.

The scale counts overlap too I think, so that isn't a definitive way of defining either.

Not sure if this is the correct area to post this in, feel free to move it if not.
User avatar
azatrox
Posts: 793
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 6:51 am
Location: Arizona

Re: C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by azatrox »

Not sure I understand your question....

Are you asking how to differentiate C. atrox and C. ruber in the field or in captivity?

In the field, it's easy....atrox doesn't come into contact with ruber (there's some debate about this however....even if the two come into contact, the contact zone is small, so you can pretty much tell if it's atrox or ruber by where you are).

In captivity, it's anyone's guess as these two snakes will readily breed to each other and produce offspring. Head scalation/counts would be your best bet.

-Kris
Crotalid
Posts: 15
Joined: April 6th, 2013, 9:47 am

Re: C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by Crotalid »

azatrox wrote:Not sure I understand your question....

Are you asking how to differentiate C. atrox and C. ruber in the field or in captivity?

In the field, it's easy....atrox doesn't come into contact with ruber (there's some debate about this however....even if the two come into contact, the contact zone is small, so you can pretty much tell if it's atrox or ruber by where you are).

In captivity, it's anyone's guess as these two snakes will readily breed to each other and produce offspring. Head scalation/counts would be your best bet.

-Kris
Hi, sorry my question was about in captivity.

Doesn't the scale counts overlap with both species?

Thanks.
User avatar
Don Cascabel
Posts: 201
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:44 am
Location: Colima, México

Re: C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by Don Cascabel »

I've seen atrox in ruber country on the San Diego - Imperial border on the west side of Ocotillo.... just saying!
User avatar
regalringneck
Posts: 563
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:20 am

Re: C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by regalringneck »

... Holas, Senor Sonora, Como es su vida, monte y encanta?
I cant tell them apart either, but if you scratch em between the ears, generally, the atrox will bite you & the ruber will just wag its tale ... and ill bet if someone looks at the dna from those coachella diamondbacks ... they align w/ ruber.
User avatar
lateralis
Posts: 320
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:56 pm
Location: SW USA

Re: C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by lateralis »

DNA is likely the only way, but out here in the coachella valley our wdb are visually and behaviorally different. The wdb enter the foothills of the Santa Rosa mtns vis a vis my last voucher (awaiting someone who can do the DNA work). Ruber are quite common to the west however.
Cheers
Lat
User avatar
Correcamino
Posts: 444
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 12:50 pm

Re: C.ruber or C.atrox

Post by Correcamino »

I'm waiting for a truely complete DNA workup across the range. The only comparisons that have been done were on atrox from mainland Sonora and rubers across the gulf in Baja, with lots of water and eons between them. Not what I call a thorough study. However, I fully believe in Socal there could still be gene flow and they are actually still one species. I have seen atrox from so-cal that I would challenge ANYONE to visually distinguish from ruber lucasensis in southern Baja. And atrox at the extreme eastern part of the range can look amazingly similar also.

Cheers,

Rich
Post Reply