Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Captive care and husbandry.

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umop apisdn
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Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

So I've been a huge Uroplatus enthusiast ever since I started looking into starting to keep geckos in college. Since then, several new species have been described, and the literature suggests that there remain several cryptic species, to say the least. There are still a few "forms", or whatever you'd like to call them, in the hobby that just don't line up quite right to "typical" specimens of a particular species. Through my college years and for a short while afterward, I built a collection that included U. phantasticus, U. ebenaui, U. sikorae, U. sameiti, U. pietschmanni, and U. henkeli. U. phantasticus has been a particular obsession of mine, and I was rather successful breeding them. Unfortunately, however, I decided to loan off my collection to take a temporary job. It's kinda a sore subject for me, but let's just say my collection disappeared. It was tough, but it was several years before I got back into a situation where I could keep again, anyway. I chalked it up to a lesson learned (an extremely expensive one where years of effort went to waste), and to this day I still feel the urge to keep species like U. phantasticus again, which is unfortunately (along with many species within the genus) notoriously difficult to keep/breed/raise. But for the meanwhile, I know I don't have the time to focus on them as I used to, so I decided to try out a species that wouldn't hatch out so tiny that I needed to special order prey items. So I decided to go with one of the larger species, Uroplatus henkeli, which I'd successfully kept and bred before.

Well, I was surprised a little to not get U. henkeli in the end, but something that was just a little different. For those of you that are unfamiliar with the genus, there is one currently described "distinct" species (at least in my opinion - U. lineatus), whereas the other species known to hobbyists fall into groups that share very similar general outward appearance (aside from looking like bark/moss/lichen/leaves), with subtle differences in patterns and eyes, or sometimes even more subtle in terms of scalation or coloration of mouth parts. So the species I ended up receiving (of which I ordered two pairs) is a currently undescribed one. Very close to U. henkeli, but also looking similar to U. sikorae and U. sameiti. I could tell their distinction from U. henkeli right away by the difference in coloration of the iris (and slightly smaller in stature if these were, indeed, adult specimens at roughly 15cm SVL). The eyes actually reminded me a lot of U. sikorae and U. sameiti, but these individuals were too large to be either of those species. Turns out, it's a currently undescribed species of leaftail gecko. It's really hard to dig through all of the evidence and determine if these had been exported from Madagascar before, as there have long been accounts of "locality forms" such as "Diego henkeli", which these could very well be (given there is no reliable description of "Diego henkeli" and Uroplatus in general have an extremely high degree of variation in color/pattern within most of the species). I have to admit, I was a little bummed about not getting the particular species I had hoped for and the uncertainty behind the proper keeping of a species there was practically no information for. Fortunately, however, I found them to be very robust and fit well in with the "general" Uroplatus husbandry I stuck with in the past.

I keep them in a fairly large arboreal vivarium, a 24in x 24in x 48in (61cm x 61cm x 122cm for metric folk) custom glass enclosure from Protean Terrarium Design with 2 double-nozzle misters from MistKing. I admit, I'm kind of a snob when it comes to housing anything arboreal...it breaks my heart seeing people keep arboreal species of any type in simple plastic bins with paper and plastic rods. Keeping Uroplatus in anything less than a vivarium would be a crime, IMO...especially seeing as it allows you to see their spectacular camouflage in action. I personally believe that true, spacious, arboreal setups are what increase your chances of successful long-term keeping and breeding of these geckos. Anyway, I got them in April of 2011. Last year my two females laid a combined total of 14 eggs. All hatched except for one unfortunate individual that was crushed by someone keeping watch after its clutchmate hatched. There was a little sporadic egg-laying early this year, which has currently led to a few infertile eggs and single-egg clutches from both females, and a single clutch from early this year just hatched out about a week ago, with another clutch due anytime over the next few weeks. I don't know if I stressed how much patience is involved with hatching these eggs...so far, the longest incubation was a little over 200 days (almost 7 months!). I believe keeping them very cool overall throughout the year is very important, as it is with many Uroplatus. It often boggles people's minds when I tell them that low-70s is what I recommend for high temperatures. Good low temperature drops can get down to the mid-50s, however I think few people are able to achieve such lows, and overnight drops to the mid-60s are preferred. In my opinion, if you don't have air conditioning...don't even bother trying to keep most species of Uroplatus.

Anyway, without blabbering on and on, here are some photos of the adults. They're sexually dimorphic in pattern, but sometimes the difference can be subtle. I even hate people saying there are certain "morphs" of Uroplatus because my experience has shown me that offspring are practically always a grab bag when it comes to appearance. Oh yea, pics of the adults.

Female 1:
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Female 2:
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Male 1:
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Male 2:
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And some copulation:
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Making a deposit:
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Results!
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A hatchling from Nov 2011 giving a piggyback ride to a newly hatched individual back in May 2012
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Sporting camo.
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Aaaaaaand I'll leave it at that.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Kelly Mc »

AWESOME
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Sam Bacchini
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Sam Bacchini »

Outstanding! I love Uroplatus, and you've done a great job there!
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El Garia
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by El Garia »

Thanks for the great pics. and info! I've looked into breeding Uroplatus, but always failed to pull the trigger on a purchase. Got into terrestrial geckos instead. I wondered how you would rank the various Uroplatus sp. in ease/difficulty of keeping and breeding.

Nice to see some geckos on this sub-forum :thumb: And, good job with your successes!
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umop apisdn
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

Well, it's kinda tough to really rank the species in terms of ease/difficulty of keeping and breeding, because I can only speak in terms of the species with which I have experience. And ranking them really doesn't do any good. It's largely going to depend on whether you acquire WC or CB, first and foremost. Supply isn't really up there for CB animals of any species of Uroplatus, but demand is. Nevertheless, I have found myself baffled that CB prices for most species tend to remain on par with WC prices. It just doesn't make sense. While I can't really rank them species by species in terms of relative ease of keeping/breeding, I'll make some notes on each species I've kept.

U. phantasticus
Due to the small size alone (which in terms of SVL is roughly equivalent to U. ebenaui (although U. ebenaui that are largely available in the hobby are claimed to be U. sp. nov. ebenaui)), they're tough to deal with. A little stuck shed is a pain, especially on the toes/legs, which are especially tiny. The hatchlings are so tiny (eggs roughly the size of a pea) that I recommend starting hatchlings on flightless fruit flies and/or pinhead crickets. They're extra sensitive to warm temperatures (I went to great lengths to avoid ever allowing temps to even meet the high 70s), but especially robust in cool temperatures. The hatchlings are very prone to dehydration. Really, they need to be watched over daily.

U. ebenaui (or as I mentioned, U. sp. nov. ebenaui)
I only kept these for a relatively short period before I loaned off my collection, but they did well. I'd say a marginally more robust than U. phantasticus, but behaviorally a bit different. They tend to like jamming themselves in nooks and crannies as opposed to draping themselves in foliage and among twigs during the daytime as U. phantasticus do. Every bit as beautiful, just a significally shorter tail.

U. sikorae
Apparently, the most widely available, at least when WC. Not known for being great breeders in many (most?) cases. In appearance, almost exactly like U. sameiti (which was only recently elevated from a subspecies of U. sikorae until fairly recently). In my experience, WC individuals did extremely well in captivity. I just couldn't get the suckers to breed. I'd describe them as medium-sized compared to other Uroplatus. I would assume hatchlings would be a size where you could feed them the small sized crickets easily available from the average pet store.

U. sameiti
Almost identical to U. sikorae in size and appearance, only marginally larger. I kept them for only a few months before my living situation changed and I sold them to a friend/Uroplatus enthusiast who visited at a very opportune time.

U. pietschmanni
This species is among the most sought after species that is available. Put them on cork bark, and they blend perfectly. Very active, reported to come from areas more dry and warm than most of the genus. Only got one clutch from those I kept, but they were so well-hidden, I never noticed until something had gotten to them. Size very similar to U. sikorae.

U. henkeli
Easy to keep, easy to breed. The down side to that is females are known to easily over-extend their resources and die from being over-bred. See note 1 near the end. Hatchlings are large and robust, making them great for people like me that don't have easy access to super-small food items.

U. aff henkeli
Practically just like U. henkeli in terms of keeping as well as breeding.

Note 1: For successful keeping and breeding, I highly recommend mimicking seasonal variations of biotic and abiotic factors. Including but not limited to: light cycle, spraying/misting, food availability, and temperatures. Keep the lights on a timer so you can be consistent. Keep them in a room where you won't be turning on the lights all night long.

Note 2: pretty much all species are prone to dehydration. Daily mistings, in my opinion, are a must. Keepers at Riverbanks Zoo highly recommend "showering" the geckos regularly, although I've never had to.

Note 3: I think most people fail to successfully raise hatchlings of most species because they simply don't keep them cool enough.

Note 4: neglect is not an option. I spent roughly 4 years without taking a day off from care, mostly due to misting (I didn't have an automated spray system). In the rare chance that I was gone, even for a night, I had someone around to spray them for me. Spraying during the day is fine, but spraying during the night is essential. How would you like to only be offered a few sips of water as you were sleeping and nothing offered at night. Oh yea, I don't care for water bowls...they're more of a risk of passing pathogens than anything.

Note 5: for observation only. These are not geckos that I recommend handling, especially not the smaller species.

Note 6: people take the humidity "requirements" of the species too seriously and try to maintain constant, high humidity. I believe this is also a likely cause of most peoples' failure.

Note 7: you've probably realized by now that I'm pretty anal when it comes to the husbandry of Uroplatus. ;)

There's simply too much to comment on. Specific questions are much easier to answer.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Kelly Mc »

Have you / do you use uvb with any of your uroplatus? I have found it especially useful for phantasticus who positioned themselves beneath it in typical daytime repose so that their bodies strategically contacted it. I used it also in a hospital cage matrixed with narrow dowels for a specimen with a fractured pelvis (sold at a show, suffered injury as a handled pet and was relinquished) He healed but for some minimized mobility of hind femur, but enough to hunt crickets in a localized feeding container and hang in typical posture.

The extreme morphological likeness to biome surfaces , ie; hiding in plain sight makes me think that in nature they dial in subtle adjustments of physical position in their dappled daytime environment - and that like natural branch bark, lichen and other detail - providing uvb is adding yet another elemental reality to the captive scenario - which have beneficial/realistic impact - physiologically and behavioral.
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umop apisdn
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

In the early days, I had a mix of use/non-use of UVB bulbs. I never saw any differences made by it. Nevertheless, I use UVB on all of my current collection, which is limited to only U. aff. henkeli.

There is a group of interested people that long ago pledged money to purchase a meter to measure UVB levels in the immediate areas where various Uroplatus are found, however it never came to fruition. I believe the goal was to get Bill Love on board (which I believe he agreed), however he hasn't made a trip there since (to my knowledge).

I have personal doubts of the importance of UVB, though. The doubts mainly come from observations of the larger captive species along with photo accounts I've seen of wild individuals. U. ebenaui tend to hide in tight spaces. U. phantasticus is the only species whose daytime habits might expose them to a little more UVB radiation, as they hang out in the foliage itself, whereas most of the larger species prefer the upside-down vertical orientation on vines and tree trunks. I'm not the most knowledgeable about how UVB radiation is emitted to an end point from the sun, but given these are mostly denizens of tropical, montane cloud forests, I would suppose there should be about as much UVB radiation as there is sunlight reaching them.

I've never noticed any of the leaftail geckos I've kept to show preference for exposure to UVB in any way that I can recognize.
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El Garia
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by El Garia »

umop apisdn,

Thank you for the detailed response. A nice overview of the genus. I have a tall arboreal setup that should be ideal for Uroplatus. I too, have noticed that there has been a glut of wild caught specimens on the market. If I go with Uroplatus, I will definitely acquire a captive bred pair. I've always been partial to the fimbrilatus, but cb are hard to come by. But, from the information that you provided, it sounds like henkeli may be the most sound choice. Pietschmanni sound like a good choice, too. It would be some time before I acquired any, as I like to do a lot of research before deciding to keep a species, new to me. I'll post pics. if/when I decide to 'make the leap'. Thanks, again... :beer:
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Calfirecap »

Very cool Mike, I'm glad you did get this un-described variety as they are most certainly in good hands.
Derek, didn't know you were into Uros, we'll have to talk geckos sometime and before you get any you should take a look at my set up for ideas.

Lawrence
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by roosters977 »

I can't believe how well they blend in!
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CCarille
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by CCarille »

Fantastic post! Quite possibly my favorite pic - the one of the newborn ready to bite right out of the egg! haha

Do you sell any of the offspring? I'd love to get some for the classroom - great for evolution discussions!
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Scott Waters »

We chose one of your images to be featured on Herp Nation, thanks so much for sharing it with us on the forum!

www.HerpNation.com
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umop apisdn
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

Cool. But it's mislabeled by naming it U. henkeli. I can assure you the species does not match up with any of the currently described species.

They will be going up for sale fairly soon, but I don't know if they'll be economical for classroom pets, and most people recommend strongly that you do not handle them more than absolutely necessary.
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Nshepard
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Nshepard »

BADASS Mike! I want to see some of those neonates in person someday!
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CCarille
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by CCarille »

umop apisdn wrote: They will be going up for sale fairly soon, but I don't know if they'll be economical for classroom pets, and most people recommend strongly that you do not handle them more than absolutely necessary.

Of course, I wasn't thinking of handling them. I was simply thinking as something to view and discuss during evolutionary talks.
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Kfen »

Thanks for putting that together! I am currently considering getting some Uroplatus of the henkeli group. Are you keeping all 4 adults together, or are they seperated into pairs? Have you found keeping males seperate and introducing them for breeding adds any success? Thanks for any tips.
Reptiluvr
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Reptiluvr »

This has been a cool post and you did a good job of giving good information on this genus. I have kept U. phantasticus and U. sikorae and bred both but didn't do well with the babies. Nevertheless, I had my phantasticus popping out a clutch every 30 days and hatching in 60 for a while. Once my sikorae got started it was the same.

Without seeing it in person for size reference, I would never believe that your female #2 was anything but sikorae. I can't pin down why, but it just doesn't look like henkeli. That's pretty cool.

I too have never seen a behavior or physiological change that made me think the UVB was actually making a difference, but I used them anyway. Researching this topic seems really difficult because nobody is sure how the UVB might be helpful except for calcium and vit d3 synthesis. If it's not this, which keepers have not seen empirically yet, then what does a researcher look for?

One of the most puzzling things about the bark mimic species (henkeli, sikorae, fimbriatus, pietschmanni, etc.) is that they seem to choose bark that resembles their own pattern best. This kind of suggests a self awareness and that they somehow know what they look like.
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umop apisdn
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

Sorry, this topic had died, so I missed out on the recent posts.

Kfen, U. henkeli is a good choice, especially for your first Uroplatus. They're a robust species that does well in captivity, including reproduction. As a matter of fact, propagation in captivity rarely requires any special action with that species. However, if it comes down to it, separating the animals for several weeks (at least) followed by reintroduction could work. I used to keep U. phantasticus (as well as other Uroplatus species), and would separate/reintroduce with success. Overall, I recommend relying on trying to keep environmental factors (temperatures, humidity, light cycle, feeder availability) on a seasonal rotation. And yes, I keep both pairs housed together, though I'll be separating them in the future.

Robert, our fondness of Uroplatus goes back for the both of us. I recognized you from the Kingsnake days. But yea, these geckos represent characteristics of both henkeli and sikorae, in my opinion. Kinda like an intermediate between the two. But if you get to see them in person, you'll notice they are without a doubt larger than sikorae, and not quite as large as henkeli. As for the choice of which bark to perch during daytime hours, I've only noticed an overall preference for smooth bark over rough. Males with a pattern resembling more of a textured bark still tend to stick around smooth bark. Photos of wild animals, however, seem to routinely show these geckos wisely choosing bark to which their variable patterns are closely matched.

I was very fond of phantasticus back in the day, though I ran into issues once I moved for a job that prohibited me from keeping them (hard to get crickets). However, I wrote a lengthy caresheet once upon a time:
http://www.freewebs.com/thegeckofactory/caresheet.htm
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Kelly Mc »

Thats got to be one of the best care sheets on any herp I have ever seen, if not the best.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Kelly Mc »

Tremors and flaccidity are some of the common manifestations that are seen in the larger herps, in the stages preceding spontaneous fracture. (MBD)

In smaller forms there is a hyperbole of symptoms simply because of their structural delicacy. Small reptiles and amphibians - contort suddenly in spasms instead of showing finer muscle fasciculations for weeks. Ionic imbalances that cause a flaccid feel in a larger animal - present in prolapse in geckos, that seem to show the same expressions seen in small frogs - spasm, and prolapse being signature of these.
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umop apisdn
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

Thanks. I think that came at a time where there were a lot of questions about U. phantasticus that people were repeatedly asking, so I just made good use of a long plane ride to write that up. It seems like people have a bit more success now, not necessarily because of the caresheet, but information seems to be getting around a bit better nowadays.

And thanks for the tips on the health issues. I've never gotten a definitive answer on the issue. I find it difficult to identify calcium deficiency as the issue when all feeders were dusted, and once things really ramped up is when I got rid of my collection. I'm hoping to use my current offspring to help me get back into U. phantasticus and other species, so hopefully if I find any issues like that again, I can have them appropriately diagnosed.
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Calfirecap »

Mike,
Your care sheet is still the definitive guide to U. phantasticus. I've got a husbandry page on my web site dealing with phants, but it's more of a suppliment to your work.
http://www.gekkotas.com/Gekkotas/Husbandry.html

Lawrence
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by Reptiluvr »

That IS a great care sheet. I wrote one too years ago that GGA published in their newsletter. Yours covers a few topics mine did not. I remember your name now too. Oh boy, back in the "not allowed" days. Man that's a while ago.
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umop apisdn
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Re: Uroplatus aff. henkeli, undescribed leaftail gecko

Post by umop apisdn »

Thanks again, fellas. Just dropping in to share a photo of one of my favorite offspring, who just happens to be from the first clutch I hatched for this species (back in Nov. 2011).

Here she is in the foreground from when she was just a wee lass:
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And here she is in static mode:
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