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 Post subject: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 11th, 2014, 10:14 am 
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David Steen's response is linked below.


" A few weeks ago I wrote an article that appeared in Slate Magazine about how biologists try to tell the difference between species that are exotic and those that are invasive, using some of the exotic reptiles that have been found in South Florida as examples. I basically summarized the scientific consensus on exotic reptiles in Florida so that people could have a better understanding of the issue. It was a piece I used to expand on a blog post I wrote detailing problems with an earlier story in Slate suggesting Green Anacondas had invaded Florida. I wrote what I did because I thought the fear-mongering article about Green Anacondas was based on inaccurate and misleading information. A well-informed general public that appreciates wildlife is more likely to be interested in their conservation; it’s why I participate in science outreach and why I created this blog.

Overall, I've been very pleased with the response to my article and received some great feedback. But, to my surprise, I have also provoked some outrage and personal attacks….."

http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.com/ ... ot-me.html


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 11th, 2014, 12:29 pm 
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I liked the link you posted to the original article, but I LOVE this one. I may have to read this guy's blog from now on.

Nice link Bryan.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 11th, 2014, 5:25 pm 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
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His opinion of us was more slanted than our opinion of him. :roll: jim


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 11th, 2014, 6:36 pm 
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hellihooks wrote:
His opinion of us was more slanted than our opinion of him. :roll: jim



It's as if he's never frequented an online discussion group which has a multitude of participants, none of which claim to speak on behalf of the entire group...

His reply was snarky. Fairly highbrow, but still snarky.

See? That's one person's opinion, and as already evidenced previously in this thread, not representative of the entire population (or even of a majority), but this is the kind of reply that seems to touch a nerve with the author...perhaps it will be incorporated into a follow-up article.

:P


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 11th, 2014, 7:06 pm 
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I didn't get that impression from his response that he was claiming it was the opinion of ALL participants here. He did point out that they were the opinions of ONE poster; not everyone. He was stressing in his reply that most of his detractors originated from the pet industry and included some quotes pulled from such individuals' Facebook pages. He did not state that these individuals originated from the FHF.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 7:55 am 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
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He crosses the line from 'informational' to 'persuasive' essay, with logical fallacies such as 'emotional language', and seems indignant that some folks (on a fully public forum) tend to resent that more than others.

It's a fine and difficult line to walk, and he actually does a better job than most. Some people protest his use of the word 'deadly' in regard to snakes... but actually... he said deadly reptiles, which includes big crocs, which certainly could be considered 'deadly'.

Whenever one thinks their work is beyond reproach, one tends to get indignant, and would be better served to consider criticism more rationally.

Overall... I found his article FAR better than most of the crap put out by the press, regarding reptiles... but 'perfect' is a pretty high standard for anyone to reach. jim


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 8:36 am 
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hellihooks wrote:
He crosses the line from 'informational' to 'persuasive' essay, with logical fallacies such as 'emotional language', and seems indignant that some folks (on a fully public forum) tend to resent that more than others.

It's a fine and difficult line to walk, and he actually does a better job than most. Some people protest his use of the word 'deadly' in regard to snakes... but actually... he said deadly reptiles, which includes big crocs, which certainly could be considered 'deadly'.

Whenever one thinks their work is beyond reproach, one tends to get indignant, and would be better served to consider criticism more rationally.

Overall... I found his article FAR better than most of the crap put out by the press, regarding reptiles... but 'perfect' is a pretty high standard for anyone to reach. jim


And how does this apply to the claim he is including the entire participant base of the Field Herp Forum ? It doesn't. This is only your viewpoint explaining your own personal offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 10:02 am 

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I actually take no offense to his article, and am not addressing your inquiry, regarding 'all' or 'some' of FHF.
The point I was trying to make is there is a big difference between 'scientific research papers' and stuff written for the general public, which he seems to write quite a bit of both of. It's about writing styles, and how to best balance the two.
A certain amount of 'emotional language' may be necessary on 'twitter' or fully public blogs to keep/build an audience, which would be inappropriate in a more (dare I say) intellectual millue, such as a citizen scientist audience. Truth of the matter is... some of our members who take umbrage to Steen's article don't take this into consideration, nor does Steen in his rebuttals seem to realize we may be different from audiences he may be used to dealing with.

Writing well is a far more difficult enterprise than most folks realize, and it's nearly impossible to please every audience. That's really all I care to say, and I am not going to argue any points others bring up. Playoff games are starting, so...cyaaaaaaaaaaaa :D jim


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 10:44 am 
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hellihooks wrote:
I actually take no offense to his article, and am not addressing your inquiry, regarding 'all' or 'some' of FHF.
The point I was trying to make is there is a big difference between 'scientific research papers' and stuff written for the general public, which he seems to write quite a bit of both of. It's about writing styles, and how to best balance the two.
A certain amount of 'emotional language' may be necessary on 'twitter' or fully public blogs to keep/build an audience, which would be inappropriate in a more (dare I say) intellectual millue, such as a citizen scientist audience. Truth of the matter is... some of our members who take umbrage to Steen's article don't take this into consideration, nor does Steen in his rebuttals seem to realize we may be different from audiences he may be used to dealing with.

Writing well is a far more difficult enterprise than most folks realize, and it's nearly impossible to please every audience. That's really all I care to say, and I am not going to argue any points others bring up. Playoff games are starting, so...cyaaaaaaaaaaaa :D jim



No matter how you may try to explain yourself away, your response is still filled with contradiction when compared to your earlier comments; plus there is still an air of personal offense. Perhaps his use of language maybe regarded by some as a personal attack with regards to ego vs ego. Scientists can be very arrogant and dismissive sometimes because they fail to regard that they maybe addressing an educated audience.
And then when they try to convey their information to an audience of widely unknown backgrounds with terminology and discourse suitable for communication amongst their academic peers, they can be held accountable for being arrogant and condescending. There are participants on this Forum that are guilty of this as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 11:19 am 

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I think you make my point, Hanna. What I write may not be what others read, if and when they assign motivations and emotion. For instance... I said he crosses the line from 'informational' to 'persuasive', and you (seem) to take that as condemnation, when the statement is actually value neutral. That's why I like 'pure' critical analysis... no emotions are a given.

I really don't feel like debating anything with anybody, anymore today. You, on the other hand... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: If you have to have the last word with me... go ahead... I'll read it tomorrow, as I'm turning off my computer now... :? :lol: :lol: jim


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 11:39 am 
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That's why I like 'pure' critical analysis... no emotions are a given.
You contradicted your own opinion by assuming I was insinuating condemnation. Not!
I don't think you really know what that is. Your responses are as emotionally fueled and biased (I can cite LOTS of examples) as any other participant on this Forum. Fraud and hypocrisy loses the argument. "Critical thinking"??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 11:46 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 1:50 pm 
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Thanks for the link to his blog. I've been reading it and I enjoy it. Too bad about your dispute...


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 2:18 pm 
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Invoking controversy can be some of the most interesting articles to read; congrats to you and the interesting article. :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 12th, 2014, 4:06 pm 
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Quote:
David Steens : Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud

Ernie Eison: David Steens comes off as yet another activist fraud posing as a credible scientist.



These two statements David Steens and mine are similar but there is a distinct difference.

Calling someone a [fill in the blank] is not the same thing as saying someone comes off as a [fill in the blank].

Calling someone a [fill in the blank] emphatically states that they are that.

Saying someone comes off as a [fill in the blank] acknowledges that they show similarities to [fill in the blank] but may not be the same(or could be) . When placed within the true context of what was said by David Steens my statement rings true.

A review of what was said by Mr. Steens.

Quote:
Miami International Airport is a major hub for the wild animal trade, legal and otherwise, and make no mistake, the scale of global animal trade is almost beyond comprehension. The organization Defenders of Wildlife estimated that on your average day between 2000 and 2004, “the United States imported … 588,000 individually counted animals plus an additional 3 tons of animals that were weighed, not counted individually.” That’s more than 4 million individual live animals each week plus 21 tons of animals nobody bothered to count. However, the global trade in animals is so huge and complex that we shouldn’t be surprised when creatures slip through the cracks and disappear into the nearby woods. Some of animals imported into this country escape and others are released, but most that make it out of their cages are promptly eaten by a native predator or die a slow and lonely death.


If you agree with David Steens statement or not.This reads like it could have been lifted off of any radical activist website. Right down to the use of anthropomorphism. Mr Steen goes further by using information sourced directly from the radical environmental group Defenders of Wildlife. Mr. Steens in NO way qualifies this information. He just blurts it out. This clearly demonstrates my point by virtue of Mr. Steens own words and sourced information.


Quote:

Mr Steens original statement: Picture a Komodo dragon and you’ve got a pretty good idea what you’re dealing with in a Nile monitor. This hulking beast of a lizard can reach nearly 8 feet long and is a voracious predator of any creature smaller than itself.

The revised version: I asked readers to picture a Komodo Dragon (Varanus komodoensis) so that they can better imagine a Nile Monitor (Varanus niloticus). Presumably I did this because a Komodo Dragon is a large dangerous creature and I wanted everyone to be afraid of Nile Monitors.

I would venture a guess that just about everybody knows what a Komodo Dragon is, but does everyone also know what a Nile Monitor looks like? Probably not. However, they are both large monitor lizards in the same genus. Is it really absurd to ask the general public to picture a well-known large lizard to better understand what a different but closely-related large lizard might look like?


Compare these two statements. In the original statement there is NOTHING to suggest that the author is simply trying to create an image of what a different but closely-related large lizard might look like?

In fact he makes it clear to the general public that dealing with a Nile monitor is the same as dealing with a Komodo dragon. His original statement does not imply that they are different but rather makes them both seem very much alike. Both in size and temperament.

His revised version of what he "meant" is a far cry from what he actually said.


lastly, David Steens attempts to discredit via his blog by stating "A particularly egregious example occurred on the Field Herp Forum". He then fails to prove that anything in fact was egregious. He offered nothing of substance to support his statement other then then throwing out random and vague references. His smoke and mirrors approach is common place. There is nothing more disconcerting to this type, then running up against someone who can debunk their rhetoric.

Ernie Eison


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 13th, 2014, 7:25 am 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
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klawnskale wrote:
That's why I like 'pure' critical analysis... no emotions are a given.
You contradicted your own opinion by assuming I was insinuating condemnation. Not!
I don't think you really know what that is. Your responses are as emotionally fueled and biased (I can cite LOTS of examples) as any other participant on this Forum. Fraud and hypocrisy loses the argument. "Critical thinking"??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Wow Hanna... hell hath no fury... :lol: :lol: :lol: As Ernie so eloquently detailed, there is a big difference tween claiming someone is doing something (or is something) and saying it SEEMS they are.
one is a claim... one is an observation... I EVEN put SEEM in parentheses so you'd get it... but :roll: I made no assumption(s) about either you nor Dr Steen... I made observations.

I suspect Dr Steen's professional work/writing is up to par, and the literary devices (emotional language) he employs in his blogs relates to the audience he is addressing. That said, like Ernie I'm suspicious of the numbers he quoted and their source. (speaks to Ethos) but truth be told, having no more than a passing interest in this topic, won't investigate any further, and certainly not enough to make any claims, nor form any opinions regarding Dr Steen.

I will say that since others who SEEM to know have chimed in to say Dr Steen is very active in public education... that 'high ideal' carries a lot of weight with me (as an educator myself) and might tend to make me want to cut the guy some slack.

Speaking of 'education' Klawn... even IF I'd made an assumption (which I didn't) about you.. it would have supported my claim, not contradicted it. That's basic logic, which, along with English and Critical Thinking I've taught at the College level. And furthermore, as to my responses being 'emotionally fueled'... you don't know me nearly well enough to judge what's authentic and what's a literary device. Lest you feel the urge to presume such knowledge, regarding this thread... I'll save you the trouble...I'm bemused... mostly by your replies... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm gonna go find something more interesting to do... like, IDK... pick my nose.... rake my yard... bout anything, really... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: on the bright side, this: Fraud and hypocrisy loses the argument. "Critical thinking"??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: made me think of this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkXsrz_Q ... bedded#t=0
So... thx for starting my day off with a good laugh... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 13th, 2014, 8:20 am 
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I'm gonna go find something more interesting to do... like, IDK... pick my nose.... rake my yard... bout anything, really... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: on the bright side, this: Fraud and hypocrisy loses the argument. "Critical thinking"??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: made me think of this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkXsrz_Q ... bedded#t=0
So... thx for starting my day off with a good laugh... :lol: :lol: :lol:[/quote]

This response alone is hypocrtical. Where are the ethos and logic in this commentary? Are you sure you taught these topics at the college level or were you amongst a group of undisciplined teenagers affected with ADD who appear to have had a profound influence on your psyche? I am just proving over and over again that you are spewing out mindless doublespeak. Not impressed by your semantics. It would probably be more productive for you
to engage in these activities. You're accomplishing very little otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 13th, 2014, 8:55 am 

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You SEEM to need everything spelled out for you Klawn...so... the only thing that interests me less than this topic, is arguing with you. I've called you no names (like fraud nor hypocrite) nor questioned your 'honesty'. I'm trying, as politely and humorously as possible to conclude my participation in this thread, and ask you again to PLEASE stop trying to bait me into arguing with you. What we think about each other is not germane to the topic at hand, and I have NO INTEREST in continuing this.
I suspect you won't let it rest, so insult and bash me more if you wish...you're only making yourself look bad. I won't respond again.
Edit... someone just told you, on another thread to "F^&! off"... go argue with them if you feel the need to argue.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 13th, 2014, 9:19 am 
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hellihooks wrote:
You SEEM to need everything spelled out for you Klawn...so... the only thing that interests me less than this topic, is arguing with you. I've called you no names (like fraud nor hypocrite) nor questioned your 'honesty'. I'm trying, as politely and humorously as possible to conclude my participation in this thread, and ask you again to PLEASE stop trying to bait me into arguing with you. What we think about each other is not germane to the topic at hand, and I have NO INTEREST in continuing this.
I suspect you won't let it rest, so insult and bash me more if you wish...you're only making yourself look bad. I won't respond again.
Edit... someone just told you, on another thread to "F^&! off"... go argue with them if you feel the need to argue.


Okay, Jimbo. Hope you get the job @ Deep Creek. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 13th, 2014, 1:44 pm 
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Here happens to be a job opportunity that just openned up working with the State of Florida related to this topic. Any takers? Here's your chance to be counted and make a difference:
http://www.conbio.org/professional-deve ... strator-ii


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 13th, 2014, 5:15 pm 

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I would have to read more than one article by the author to have any general opinion of him. However, the specific article did come across with some language that reminds one of the type of absurd statements often made by animal rights activists. As Ernie correctly pointed out, comparing a nile to a komodo is a rather extreme comparison. He has implicated the pet industry as being responsible for invasive reptiles, but does not cite any evidence to back up his claims. So science is pretty much out the window for this piece. It could have been written by anyone and may as well have been. I guess he is mad because his degree didn't impress everyone enough to look past the statements he made that were either unfounded or downright outrageous.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 14th, 2014, 8:33 am 
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Quote:

David Steens response to this statement "Verdict: David Steens comes off as yet another activist fraud posing as a credible scientist. "

Debunking part two. Ernie Eison

A particularly egregious example occurred on the Field Herp Forum, where one poster accused me of being an “activist fraud posing as a credible scientist” and provided some unconvincing arguments about why the information in my Slate article was misleading. The evidence for my animal activism was of course very thin. To respond to all of the intended points there is to give them validity, so I won’t, because they’re not. But I encourage you to check these points out to better understand how some people respond to information about invasive species. In any case, I think anyone has to try really hard to get outraged about my evidence-based article. David Steens


Mr Steens begins his attack by intentionally misquoting me. Leaving out a KEY part of the sentence. I pointed out the distinct differences in my previous post. Given Mr Steens level of education this cannot be looked at as anything more than a dishonest , calculated attempt on Mr Steens part to deceive. You could say fraudulent.

Mr Steen goes on to make this statement, " To respond to all of the intended points there is to give them validity, so I won’t, because they’re not. "

For someone who claims his only agenda is to educate the public this is an odd statement.

Google this topic and you will be inundated with copy cat writing's and endless misinformation about the species in question. Essentially, the internet is for the new generation what TFH publications were to the older one, except on steroids. He basically attempts to convince and mislead his blog fans that my post was nothing more than the rantings of a pet trade supporter. Mr. Steens response is shallow and appears to be nothing but a spin doctoring effort to save face.


Mr. Steens refers to his piece as an evidence-based article, but provides virtually nothing to support his evidence. Essentially, his evidence is comprised of little more than media fodder. The majority of it supplied by USGS researchers and friends. Their methods and agenda has been called into question and debunked by members of the scientific community. It seems Mr. Steens version of scientific consensus applies only to those who follow his line of thinking. It stands to reason that any further retort form Mr. Steen will involve the same questionable approach and information sources.

To me a credible scientist is someone who uses all the available information in a critical and contextual manner. Cross referencing, objectively taking into account all possible factors, looking at an issue from all possible angles. A rigorous approach not clouded by agenda or personal sentiment. On this level Mr Steens credibility fails as it applies to the article in question and subsequent blog. His use of non-qualified activist propagation and deception to push his view point further supports this.

My opinions are not the product of guesswork, ignorance or frustration as Mr Steens would like to wrongfully portray. They are based on countless hours of research. A life time of dedication to the knowledge and understanding these animals and their environment.

This involves extensive use of peer reviewed publications, personal interaction with biologist and pet trade professionals, as well as personal accounts from those I consider credible (I do not casually accept unsubstantiated information in this regard) combined with extensive hands on experience. I factor in the best available statistical, biological and behavior information from diverse sources. I don't accept any one opinion as generated from a single source or related group to be the final word or view it as gospel. My understanding is one that can certainly separate the shaft from the wheat.

Ernie Eison


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 14th, 2014, 11:58 am 
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WSTREPS wrote:
Given Mr Steens level of education this cannot be looked at as anything more than a dishonest , calculated attempt on Mr Steens part to deceive. You could say fraudulent


I can see David's next blog post title right now, "How defending myself against being called a fraud, got me called fraudulent"


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 14th, 2014, 12:48 pm 
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A comment made by a person named Kara, I found to be as myopic as she meant its projected target to be.

She makes a comment about an anti science contingent within the herping community and goes on to say that "Looking at something in a cage" is never going to give someone the "level of knowledge about a species spending all day, every day over long periods of time studying that species in its natural environment."

She is referring to Herpetoculture as if it were the circus pictures on an animal cracker box.

There have been instances where biologists and Veterinarians have saught the advice and input of a lifelong Herpetoculturist.

I found this persons side comment about herpers being Delusional, offensive also. Whenever people use words like that for a group of individuals, whom they do not know - neither by works, nor individual, it is They whom are engaging in Fiction.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 14th, 2014, 4:03 pm 
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Kelly Mc wrote:
She makes a comment about an anti science contingent within the herping community


Anti-science contingent? Who might these people be? I don't know of any personally, but although I'm fairly selective in my associations I think I have a wide cross-section of the herping community among my friends.

Perhaps the poster means people who don't blindly accept/early-adopt every new reclassification, species split/lump, etc? Reluctance to jump on board doesn't necessarily equate to anti-science.

But regarding the remarks concerning herpetoculturists as less "worthy" of being included in any "legitimate" arm of the "herping community," I recall the words of the esteemed Professor Frink. He was using a child's push-toy to explain a concept in physics. When a child asked if he could "play" with the toy too, Frink said, "No, you can't play with it; you won't enjoy it on as many levels as I do." :?


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 14th, 2014, 5:04 pm 
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Quote:
goes on to say that "Looking at something in a cage" is never going to give someone the "level of knowledge about a species spending all day, every day over long periods of time studying that species in its natural environment."

She is referring to Herpetoculture as if it were the circus pictures on an animal cracker box.

There have been instances where biologists and Veterinarians have saught the advice and input of a lifelong Herpetoculturist.


She does have a point, certainly we can agree that studying a species in its natural habitat is going to shed light on things we would never learn in a non-natural setting? Of course this shouldn't take away from the scientific merits of ex-situ study, which is also important and can just as easily shed light on things that would be missed in in-situ observation. I don't see the two form of study as being at odds to each other, they both have their pros and cons and can supplement each other.


Quote:
I found this persons side comment about herpers being Delusional, offensive also. Whenever people use words like that for a group of individuals, whom they do not know - neither by works, nor individual, it is They whom are engaging in Fiction.


I found her comment fairly innocuous and true in some regards. I didn't feel like she was calling all herpers as a group delusional, but rather referencing a few unreasonable individuals. But hey that's just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 14th, 2014, 6:39 pm 
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I am only not able to agree with it being Innocuous.

It seemed to be publicly opportunistic, disingenuous ass kissing to me, of a kind I have seen before with females in a genre, to an alpha established male in same genre.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: January 15th, 2014, 1:11 pm 
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Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
Posts: 3948
Location: San Francisco, California
I just realized something reading the article again.

The person commenting was an awesome contributer to this forum. I did not know this person stopped participating out of disdain.

I actually wish I had not posted the comment I made above. I will sometimes edit out a mispelled word or tighten up a sentence but that is all.

That thing that people do, where they ostentatiously address one person (Steen), but talk loud enough for other people to hear in the next room (FHF), because they are Actually whom the comments are being directed at. Its not genuine.

FHF is human. But it has a good feel. Its better to keep plugging along with others here.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: February 12th, 2014, 9:53 pm 
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Joined: June 19th, 2010, 6:42 pm
Posts: 848
Location: New Yawk
Kelly Mc wrote:

It seemed to be publicly opportunistic, disingenuous ass kissing to me, of a kind I have seen before with females in a genre, to an alpha established male in same genre.


This is ridiculous and really doesn't belong here.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: February 13th, 2014, 8:56 am 
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Joined: October 18th, 2011, 12:03 pm
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Location: San Francisco, California
Are you "picking a fight" with me John Vanek? Because thats what it looks like.

Or maybe you're just sharing an opinion? If so, Ive got some.

Either way we can get down if you like. Just say the word.


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 Post subject: .
PostPosted: February 13th, 2014, 2:30 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:02 am
Posts: 510
Location: Southern Cal.
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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: February 13th, 2014, 3:10 pm 

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 7:12 am
Posts: 8025
Location: Hesperia, California.
Kelly Mc wrote:
Are you "picking a fight" with me John Vanek? Because thats what it looks like.

Or maybe you're just sharing an opinion? If so, Ive got some.

Either way we can get down if you like. Just say the word.


For some reason this reminds me of the old joke, where this guy is trying to get a kite in the air, at a company picnic...
"you need more tail" a cute redhead calls out.... "Make up your mind' the guy replies..."last week you told me to go fly a kite!!" :crazyeyes: :lol: :lol: :lol: jim


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 Post subject: Re: Why Writing About Exotic Species Got Me Called a Fraud
PostPosted: February 13th, 2014, 7:22 pm 

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 10:42 am
Posts: 2228
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Touch'e Kelly.....

How come you can't state your opinion ?

It does belong here.

Everyone has their own perseptions. They polarize some and confound others.

This forum is to talk it out, share experiences, and have fun.

I agree. Rock on, Kelly.


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