Pigmy Rattlesnakes

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dthor68
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by dthor68 » June 1st, 2012, 3:09 pm

What I like most about Fieldherpers Forum is that there are many here into conservation. It is a real nice change from the irresponsible pet trade crap that is going on. The only thing most people here want to take is a picture. To many taking an animal out of the wild is no different than running it over. I know there are collectors here and I only respect them in that I do not get involved in these heated discussions. However, you more than likely will not get anything out of the collectors either.

Guy, there are many forums out there made for collectors and keepers that I am sure would be more than happy to answer your questions. I think "not allowed" is rather popular for that. Not saying you should leave Fieldherpers, you are more than welcome here. Stay here long enough you will end up spending a small fortune on camera equipment and bombarding the forums with your field trips.

Derek

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Joe Farah
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Joe Farah » June 1st, 2012, 4:30 pm

It's like a nerdy version of getting jumped into a gang

We love ya dude... And trust me, you love us too. We just wanna make sure you're down

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Brandon D
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Brandon D » June 1st, 2012, 6:26 pm

Sean wrote:This forum is just too hilarious at times.

Chance posted some EDBs in a cage and get's attacked immediately for it.

tspuckler posted a Hypo Milk in a box and get's applauded for the find. One forum member even mentioned how great it would be to breed it with someone else's Milk!

Guy get's accused of using a fake name when it's his REAL name!

Who the heck knows what tspuckler stands for? If that's his real name, I have no idea if it's for Spuckler, Puckler, Puck, Spuck, well you get my drift. No offense tspuckler but I just have no idea what that username might even begin to mean.
Sean, his name is Tim Spuckler. I did say it would be awesome to it being bred to Joe Mahoney's albino triangulum, all were legally collected, not like either one of them are commercial collectors. Also its one thing to collect a common reptile with ample habitat, than one that is slowly diminishing along with its habitat, on the bridge of extinction, with that said to the diamond back guy I don't think he did anything wrong, those snakes could have been killed, I could possibly see myself doing something similar, but I don't keep hots and I usually don't collect at all. When I first saw Guys post's I thought oh my hes going to get slaughtered. I also believe some people are of the chain with there antics here, it would be nice if we could get back to what this forum is for, its a shame we spend so much time bashing than making good posts or doing the things that good posts are made of, like getting of the computer and getting in the field where we all belong
:beer:
Brandon DeCavele

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JakeScott
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by JakeScott » June 1st, 2012, 6:38 pm

This guys full of crap, inexperienced, and once he got "belittled" decided to act as though it was some kind of moral test. Poor form. If you truly don't like us, "integrate" to another forum or learn that you may not be the most knowledgeable herp enthusiast. Either way...

-Jake Scott

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Mike VanValen » June 1st, 2012, 7:04 pm

JakeScott wrote:This guys full of crap, inexperienced, and once he got "belittled" decided to act as though it was some kind of moral test. Poor form. If you truly don't like us, "integrate" to another forum or learn that you may not be the most knowledgeable herp enthusiast. Either way...

-Jake Scott
I agree. Can we say Backpedaling?

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Josh Holbrook » June 1st, 2012, 7:30 pm

Guyt_1 wrote:Does anybody know the western edge of their habitat?
The side to the direction of the setting sun.

Guyt_1 wrote: There were a very few replies that were educational, most belittled and tried to build themselves up by making everyone else look stupid. It that the purpose for this forum?
I for one approve of hazing.

Tamara D. McConnell wrote:Quote:
If you would like to know more about my current genetics project through officials in Louisiana message.
I am sure I am not the only one who would love to hear about this.
(hands clasped in prayer) Please let me peer review it, oh please let me peer review it.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by muskiemagnet » June 1st, 2012, 8:54 pm

Guyt_1 wrote:I'm done boss, your insecurities are showing!

c'mon guy. it's not insecurities. you came off in a bad way. you even admitted to lying to get the feel of the forum. bad idea. justin is blunt, but it is to be respected. he's a good guy. you just seem to be irritating the people who can help you. good luck to you in the future. really. suck it up as a bad day and get on with it. stop trying to rationalize your words and actions. it will get you nowhere. you have demonized us because we called you out. sounds to me that the issue is with you. like i said in my pm. i will consider you a friend, but true friends will tell you when your head is up your ass. that's what i'm saying to you right now.

-ben

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by muskiemagnet » June 1st, 2012, 8:58 pm

Joe Farah wrote:It's like a nerdy version of getting jumped into a gang

We love ya dude... And trust me, you love us too. We just wanna make sure you're down

perfectly said.

-ben

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Mark Brown
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Mark Brown » June 2nd, 2012, 2:25 am

Here's how I see this......if someone new shows up on FHF and makes comments that people honestly take exception to, don't climb up his ass over it. We have an opportunity to inform and educate and the potential to help change what we might see as inappropriate behavior, and all that the condescension and sarcasm will do is chase the newcomer off, without enlightening him at all. It's a missed opportunity to change the hobby for the better where a little respect might end up benefitting the animals and the environment.

In my opinion, it also damages FHF's reputation and reduces the potential to help other newcomers, since the spurned newbie is likely to spread the word about his treatment here. There's no benefit at all in treating someone like a dick, even if he deserves it (which I'm not saying was the case here).

Just my dos centavos.....

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by DaveR » June 2nd, 2012, 7:06 am

It's like a nerdy version of getting jumped into a gang

We love ya dude... And trust me, you love us too. We just wanna make sure you're down

Nice analogy OG.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by gretzkyrh4 » June 2nd, 2012, 7:24 am

Guyt_1 wrote: If you would like to know more about my current genetics project through officials in Louisiana message.
Is your LA genetics project herp-related? If so are you collaborating with the state herpetologist, Jeff Boundy, or with anyone from Chris Austin's lab at LSU. Both Jeff and a number of Dr. Austin's students participate in this forum, so I'm sure they'd speak up in your defense if that is the case.

In either case, I'll second those who said they'd like to hear more.

Chris

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by chance37 » June 2nd, 2012, 12:09 pm

as far as speling wordz right.....asdfjkl;asdfjkl; im working on it.....know what i mean..not what im typing?????anyhow...Mark you placed the proverbial "nail" to the head....And I have been on here for only 3 or 4 weeks...just wish i could drop a dime on everything anyone ever says on here for the next 10 years so one day, just one day my "post rank" will be up there with the greats.....get off the horse Teddy....

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by gbin » June 3rd, 2012, 9:58 am

I agree that it would be nice if we could all try harder to help ease newcomers into our community. Here's how I think we should have handled Guy's posts: We should have responded to his first posts with reasonably gentle (or at least not downright harsh) criticism, correction and hopefully education. Then once he revealed that he was just trolling, we should have simply dropped him like a hot rock. Those now trying to engage him in a conversation about his purported work on a LA project do realize that's quite likely just more trolling, right?

Gerry

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by hellihooks » June 3rd, 2012, 12:58 pm

Mark Brown wrote:Here's how I see this......if someone new shows up on FHF and makes comments that people honestly take exception to, don't climb up his ass over it. We have an opportunity to inform and educate and the potential to help change what we might see as inappropriate behavior, and all that the condescension and sarcasm will do is chase the newcomer off, without enlightening him at all. It's a missed opportunity to change the hobby for the better where a little respect might end up benefitting the animals and the environment.

In my opinion, it also damages FHF's reputation and reduces the potential to help other newcomers, since the spurned newbie is likely to spread the word about his treatment here. There's no benefit at all in treating someone like a dick, even if he deserves it (which I'm not saying was the case here).

Just my dos centavos.....
LIKE!!! :thumb: jim

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Guyt_1 » June 3rd, 2012, 2:38 pm

No trolling, fishing or any other analogy you want to try! Like I said before I'm not going anywhere especially with all my new found friends! My research is just that mine! After the previous reaction do you actually believe an explanation is deserved or even likely? Come on buddies let's quit while where ahead shall we? And as far as back peddling I haven't ridden a bike in a long time and don't see any reason to start now! Ha ha

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by El Garia » June 3rd, 2012, 3:35 pm

Guyt_1 wrote:No trolling, fishing or any other analogy you want to try! Like I said before I'm not going anywhere especially with all my new found friends! My research is just that mine! After the previous reaction do you actually believe an explanation is deserved or even likely? Come on buddies let's quit while where ahead shall we? And as far as back peddling I haven't ridden a bike in a long time and don't see any reason to start now! Ha ha
Olive branches have been offered to you, and you choose to continue with passive-agressiveness, sarcasm, and rhetoric. For your own sake and the sake of others who use this forum, please, accept the branch.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Guyt_1 » June 3rd, 2012, 3:42 pm

I do! Thank you.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by hellihooks » June 3rd, 2012, 3:57 pm

And the guy offering the branch, has one of the bigger branches around... :lol: :lol: :lol: jim

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 3rd, 2012, 5:25 pm

Pigmy Rattlesnakes are Neat-O Are there some pics around?
I want to learn more about them and what they do in their world

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Joe Farah
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Joe Farah » June 3rd, 2012, 7:26 pm

Guyt_1 wrote:Like I said before I'm not going anywhere especially with all my new found friends!
Well you might be going somewhere if the lifeguard lifts his head up for a minute and notices there's a piece of crap floating in the pool.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 3rd, 2012, 7:52 pm

When someone can I would really like to learn more about these guys - I will never probably ever get to see a wild specimen in their habitat and could look them up but prefer FHF first hand accounts . The vicarious enjoyment I can find here makes other stuff I could read, pale .

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Jimi » June 3rd, 2012, 10:21 pm

Mark Brown wrote:
Here's how I see this......if someone new shows up on FHF and makes comments that people honestly take exception to, don't climb up his ass over it. We have an opportunity to inform and educate and the potential to help change what we might see as inappropriate behavior, and all that the condescension and sarcasm will do is chase the newcomer off, without enlightening him at all. It's a missed opportunity to change the hobby for the better where a little respect might end up benefitting the animals and the environment.

In my opinion, it also damages FHF's reputation and reduces the potential to help other newcomers, since the spurned newbie is likely to spread the word about his treatment here. There's no benefit at all in treating someone like a dick, even if he deserves it (which I'm not saying was the case here).

Just my dos centavos.....


LIKE!!! :thumb: jim
Ditto. Like it, appreciate it. Appreciate the balls to call bullshit on bullshit. Yeah the OP is looking like kind of a tool or a troll or a dipshit and...that's his problem. Assembling the circular shooting squad (again...) is our problem. Now who's looking like a bunch of shrinking wankers?

Same as Mark said though - just my $.02. Probably no bargain at the price. Give it a thought though...maybe we don't have to be so quick to whip it out next time?

Cheers,
Jimi

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 4th, 2012, 12:52 am

Running after Jimi's post like a jack russell after a ball thats me.

I want to see some Pigmys.

annoying but sincere little subplot to this thread . . please forgive

I just went back and saw Mattlersnake Kings Pigmy pic - Thanks and sorry for interrupting. Hope more gets posted

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 4th, 2012, 1:36 am

So if no persons ever pointed out (albeit any tone or way) the unsoundness of Guys plans to take a pair from the wild and release young - If nothing was said would Guy have eventually said "SURPRISE! I was just kidding about the taking a pair of Pigmies and releasing babies!"

That doesnt make sense. I dont get it.

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Josh Holbrook
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Josh Holbrook » June 4th, 2012, 4:06 am

Image

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by hellihooks » June 4th, 2012, 6:02 am

Here Kelly
Don't know much about them, and only ever found one... but he was an awesome little dude... found off the 40 in OK or Ark... dont remember which, offhand... :roll:
Image
Image
Image
Saw my 1st one of these on the same rd...
Image
Image
Nothing quite like getting to go to other states and seeing stuff you've never seen before... :thumb: jim

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 4th, 2012, 6:36 am

Hellihooks . . Thanks oh what exquisite serpents . The lighter was perfect object to use to peep the size.

And the Copperhead was lovely too! So beautiful

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Tamara D. McConnell » June 4th, 2012, 8:54 am

Image

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 4th, 2012, 5:56 pm

Oh my God.

I have only seen pictures that were lithographs in guides. It is like the hummingbird of rattlesnakes. should be considered sacred and protected from the machine at all costs.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by MuayThaipan » June 5th, 2012, 1:53 pm

I love pygmies. When I was 15 or 16 I got a pair of dusky's the female was over 2 ft and the biggest I've ever seen that pair produced me over 9 neonates every year they where a pain to get feeding the babies can coil up on a nickel. Beautiful animals.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 5th, 2012, 6:52 pm

MuayThaipan wrote: neonates every year they where a pain to get feeding Beautiful animals.
Could you share about that? Although many of us here whether we keep or not would consider these untouchables - reality and fate will collide in cyberspace when someday, someone is going to click on this thread because they have one in their possession and your input could diminish its hardship and save its life.

chance37
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by chance37 » June 6th, 2012, 9:41 am

I see more pigmys than any other hot snake year round when sruising roads. Cottons are right up there with them. The color variations throughout its range is great. Im in north florida btw.

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 6th, 2012, 2:12 pm

I was in Jacksonville the 90s where I herped with no car or camera. Just solitary explorations that went from dawn to dusk, where I guess I missed the chance to see one. Indigos on the brain.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Jimi » June 7th, 2012, 7:14 am

Could you share about that?
My experiences mirror Muy's. Neo pigs can be a major hassle. I've raised (w/ significant mortality) neos of all 3 ssp's and have found duskies the easiest. Particularly some from the Okeechobee canefields areas, as they can be willing to start on pinks. Never had any others do that willingly. Streckeri were the worst for me. Carolinas (NC reds only) were not a whole lot better, but a little better.

All baby pigs I've had preferred amphibians over all other prey items. Then lizards, specifically skinks. They were also pretty willing to eat each other so if you had some very small snake prey to feed them that could be good. I've heard some people have luck with live fish - the flopping around is a good stimulus.

Once they're about a year old and maybe 10-12" long, often "a light switches" and they go from major PITA to the easiest thing imaginable - garbage disposals. So stick with it and don't lose heart, if you're really interested. If you aren't really interested, leave it alone. They're pretty challenging to raise up. Adults are usually cake, except WCs can be heavily burdened with "hitchhikers" and can profit from purging once established.

Basically anyone keeping animals (companions, pets, livestock, whatever) has to accept the fact that eventually, every single one of them will die. Some sooner than others. Some much sooner. Same as your family, same as your friends. Life's kind of a heartbreaker like that. We can choose to let it eat us up, or to deal with it. Or I guess, to crap all over each other about it.

Cheers,
Jimi

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by MuayThaipan » June 7th, 2012, 1:08 pm

Once they're about a year old and maybe 10-12" long, often "a light switches" and they go from major PITA to the easiest thing imaginable - garbage disposals. So stick with it and don't lose heart, if you're really interested. If you aren't really interested, leave it alone. They're pretty challenging to raise up. Adults are usually cake, except WCs can be heavily burdened with "hitchhikers" and can profit from purging once established.
What he said. I was actually able to get a few to eat crickets, other than that go with Cricket frogs (Acris). I had to do a lot of assist feeding (Couple of sore fingers from that, there hard to get a good grip on) and give them pink mice legs once in their mouth they usually swallow on their own. I wouldnt recommend anyone get a pygmy less than 10-12 inches long unless their experienced with tiny hard to feed venomous snakes, especially hands on experience necking tiny vipers.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Jimi » June 7th, 2012, 3:13 pm

I had to do a lot of assist feeding
Oh God, it's all coming back to me. Yeah, DON'T DO IT!!!! Ha ha ha. Or get yourself some small-diameter rigid clear tubing - don't pin these little buggers, you'll get yourself stuck in the thumb or forefinger. I shoved so many ground skinks (perfect shape for sliding in both directions) down tiny baby pigmies...yeah it's all coming back. No wonder I told myself "never again!"

Just because the most preferred prey item is frogs, does not mean most (or even many) will take the frogs. You could (OK, will...) still find yourself needing to do a lot of assist-feeding.

If you've got a real blue-veiner for breeding pigs - try to get some of those canefield duskies. The ones that throw big, pinky-eating babies.

Cheers,
Jimi

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 7th, 2012, 7:44 pm

I would just like to slip in quietly to say thank you for Teaching and rounding out this thread exquisitely.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by muskiemagnet » June 16th, 2012, 6:44 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:I would just like to slip in quietly to say thank you for Teaching and rounding out this thread exquisitely.
not to get off track, but it's interesting that the "student" evaporated.

anyhow, i find it interesting that it was recommended to feed these guys frogs. i had my first experience with massasaugas this spring. "what in the heck would these guys eat?" rodents in a water environment? NO. frogs? everywhere. i'm certain they feed heavily on frogs. i'm curious as to how they feed. rodents. strike, let go, follow scent/heat. frogs???? do they just hold on until the venom acts? there is no way they could find the frog if they just let go.

thoughts anyone? this is coming from a long speculative conversation while slopping through a flooded sedge meadow for four hours.

-ben

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by txherper » June 17th, 2012, 4:37 am

Cottonmouths, in a similar environment and feeding on frogs and fish, are known to hold on to their prey.

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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Jimi » June 19th, 2012, 3:06 pm

there is no way they could find the frog if they just let go
I tend to agree. I do have a zoologist colleague who loves to repeat the anecdote of finding a freshly-killed frog laying in a pool, scanning the shoreline for the likely killer, spotting a cottonmouth and then presenting the snake with its presumptive victim. (Snake ate frog.) That was in east Texas. Probably the early 60's.

I've fed lots of live frogs to (mostly young) vipers and they have always hung on. Most cold-blooded prey gets that treatment. Once the snake will take dead prey, scent-transfer is pretty routine.

cheers,
Jimi

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Kelly Mc
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Kelly Mc » June 19th, 2012, 4:33 pm

This holding on to the frog thing brings up an observation I had feeding pacific rattlesnakes . I fed them live then - and when it was rodents they struck - let go- waited - then found it and ate. When feeding chicks they always held on. I wondered if it was because a bird would be able to flutter off at a greater distance before death . I have never had the opportunity to mention this to anyone before. But they held the chick every time.

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Daryl Eby
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by Daryl Eby » June 19th, 2012, 7:36 pm

Kelly Mc wrote:But they held the chick every time.
That's always been my policy.
\

txherper
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Re: Pigmy Rattlesnakes

Post by txherper » June 20th, 2012, 3:38 am

You ain't right :lol:

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