Herping Yellowstone National Park

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zonata
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Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by zonata »

After over 13 years I'm back in West Yellowstone for the summer helping my parents out in their store. What little time I've had off has been spent herping, fishing, and going into the park. Here are a few of the herps I've photographed so far:

Blotched Tiger Salamander
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Plains Spadefoot Toad
They say that the Boreal Toad is the only toad species in the park! Well I've got news for them. This one of many was found after a good rain at the western entrance.
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Boreal Toad
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Boreal Chorus Frog
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DOA Bullsnake 
Twice this summer I've gone to Mammoth Hot Springs and twice now I've found a dead Bullsnake. I just once would like to be able to get a pic of a live one!
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Terrestrial Gartersnake
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My hope is to be able to photograph all of the herps in the park! The hard one I'm afraid will be the Rubber Boa! I've been looking in the park for over twenty years and still haven't found one! Years ago I got one but it was found over sixty miles from the Yellowstone border. 

John Reinsch
Pres: GSHIS
AKA: Zonata

Any day herping is better than working!
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sdFH'er
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by sdFH'er »

Nice post! Be sure and let us know what else you come across.
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brick911
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by brick911 »

I know out here in the East, spadefoots aren't considered true toads, despite the name. Maybe that's what was meant? Either way, keep at it. Post more pics when you get a chance!
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Nice report....Terry :beer:
Cooon Sakwax
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Cooon Sakwax »

I have been to yellowstone many times in my life and have never seen a spadefoot there. You say they were just after the west entrance? How far past the entrance? Did you find a lot of them? What kind of habitat did you find them in? Im very curious, would love to show these interesting creatures off to the kids.
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gbin
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by gbin »

Holy cow, John, your folks have a store in Yellowstone?!? Can I get a job there?... :mrgreen:

Have a blast and good luck in your quest (and I look forward to reading how it goes), but be careful! I'm actually currently re-reading Death in Yellowstone..., and I'm amazed all over again how not only novices but also old hands can so easily lose their lives to mistakes there.

Gerry
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Dell Despain
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Dell Despain »

Nice post John, and good pick up on the maculata, and boreas. Have you found a Yellowstone T. sirtalis yet?

I'll shoot you a PM and give you a spot to look for C. bottae, it'll still be hard work to find one, but at least you know your in the ball park.

-Dell
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zonata
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by zonata »

Finally after many years of looking and many tanks of gas and only, finding DOR's & Sheds, I finally got to photograph a Bullsnake in Yellowstone National Park!

As usual, lots of sheds!
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Then finally,
In-situ
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Coaxed out for photo ops. He had the biggest meal in him I'd ever seen for a snake his size!
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Now if I can only find a photograph a Rubber Boa and a Prairie Rattlesnake!

John Reinsch
Pres: GSHIS
AKA: Zonata

Any day herping is better than working!
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AndyO'Connor
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by AndyO'Connor »

Nice job on the bullsnake. I found mine by flipping large flat rocks in an open field very near one of the campsites at mammoth hot springs. I flipped a large rock and found a very fresh shed of a yearling snake, leading towards another rock, flipped that one and there was the bullsnake! That was 15 years ago, my only time in the park. I also saw the tail of a large adult as it slithered under a large rock formation right by the ranger station, I think it was called lincoln's rock or hat rock or something? It was roped off and the ranger caught me sneaking under it to get a closer look and said that snake had lived there for years.

Brick, they aren't officially known to occur there according to the yellowstone fieldguides and several online references, as toads or frogs, so John's find is pretty cool. I did some quick searching and found the population along madison arm was a range extension of nearly 100 miles AND an elevation record for the species and that was documented in 2008, 8.5 miles from the park boundaries, so John's find appears to be an extension of that population maybe?
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Fieldnotes
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Fieldnotes »

Calling a Spadefoot a toad is bit of a stretch. Years ago the old folk called treefrogs (now known as Pseudacris) Tree Toads. So, it looks like you found a Boreal Chorus Toad too.
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Brian Hubbs
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Brian Hubbs »

Why would a spadefoot be a frog? They are not really aquatic, except during breeding season. And yes, I know the Barking frog is not really aquatic either...
Stebbins calls them Spadefoot toads, everyone else just calls them Spadefoots...as if avoiding a controversy. I think they are toads.
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Fieldnotes
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Fieldnotes »

Brian, you're focusing on behavior, and not morphological traits.. They're not frogs either, they are Spadefoots... rrrrriiibbbbit!
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Rich in Reptiles
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Rich in Reptiles »

Congrats on the bullsnake!!! That's awesome! I've read somewhere that it's illegal to flip in Yellowstone Nat'l Park, is this true? I will be there very shortly in August and i am really curious if that still applies. Good luck on your endeavors to find a rubber boa!

-Bethany
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by hellihooks »

Good to see ya back John... :thumb: and congrats on the cool finds... :D jim
BTW... confusing Yellowstone with Yosemite...I ALMOST posted "WTH are you talking about...AIN'T NO BULLSNAKES IN CA!!!" Sure glad I caught myself... cause I woulda looked really dumb... :crazyeyes: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D
rtdunham
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by rtdunham »

I'm actually currently re-reading Death in Yellowstone..., and I'm amazed all over again how not only novices but also old hands can so easily lose their lives to mistakes there.
gerry, it's a fun read, isn't it. Part bold, early explorers, and part early darwin award candidates. I bought it when visiting there with my daughter Terra last summer, had it finished shortly after getting home. I think i'm about due for a re-read too.
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sjfriend
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by sjfriend »

Rich in Reptiles wrote:Congrats on the bullsnake!!! That's awesome! I've read somewhere that it's illegal to flip in Yellowstone Nat'l Park, is this true? I will be there very shortly in August and i am really curious if that still applies. Good luck on your endeavors to find a rubber boa!

-Bethany
The regulations for all national parks, monuments etc state in one way or another that disturbing wildlife or landscape is illegal. Also most state parks are the same.
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Jeff
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Jeff »

Any spotted frogs? I'm curious about declines in various places.

Jeff
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Todd Pierson
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Todd Pierson »

Whoa--that Spea is a nice find. Koch and Peterson's book speaks of some really old records of them from the western side of YNP, but nothing recent. Have you tried to report the record to the park? I'd imagine that they should be pretty interested.
Brian Hubbs wrote:Why would a spadefoot be a frog?...I think they are toads.
To many people, only bufonids are "toads". It reflects ancestry and not (necessarily) natural history.

Some Yellowstone snakes...
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Brian Eagar
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Brian Eagar »

I'm pretty sure your spadefoot is a Great Basin (spea intermontana) not a Plains.
I also thought that Dr. Charles Peterson's field guide to the reptiles and amphibians of Yellowstone listed Great Basin spadefoots as occuring there on the western side, I'll have to check it when I get home.
The thing about spadefoots is most visitors and park staff aren't likely to see them unless they are out searching at night. They are probably far more abundant than is currently known.
I've only been there once on a family trip so my herping time was limited. I mostly tried to visit the historic leopard frog habitats there in the park and got skunked on everything but t.elegans vagrans. Good job on your finds. You should definitely report them to the park.
SnakeDude
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by SnakeDude »

Just curious, are there W. Yellowbellies up there? Last week I found one about 150 miles southeast of YNP near Tensleep.

Ian
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AndyO'Connor
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by AndyO'Connor »

Yes Ian there are racers, although as it pertains to this discussion, there aren't any websites listing them, and the link I am about to reference doesn't have them on it, even though I am pretty sure I remember seeing them in the book? ... Brian, I went through the book when this post was made and there was no reference to spadefoots unless I missed it. I also found a pdf copy of the species checklist that they included with the book when I bought it.

http://www.yellowstonewildlifeguides.co ... _herps.pdf
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Todd Pierson
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Todd Pierson »

AndyO'Connor wrote:Yes Ian there are racers, although as it pertains to this discussion, there aren't any websites listing them, and the link I am about to reference doesn't have them on it, even though I am pretty sure I remember seeing them in the book?...
Yeah, no Spea intermontana are listed from there. Just the report of old records of S. bombifrons that I mentioned.

Also, I don't have it on me right now, but if I remember correctly, their book reported one visual encounter (but no documentation) of a Coluber near Mammoth. I found a definitive shed there a few years ago. The park office was uninterested, and I tried emailing Peterson but never got a response.
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Cole Grover
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Cole Grover »

Interesting to see this post revived (and good to see Todd posting...). That Spea doesn't look like the bombifrons we have around here. It lacks that giant boss between the eyes that bombifrons has. I'd guess intermontana over there, anyway. There are likely a number of undocumented species in the Gardiner/Mammoth area. Paradise Valley is a pretty welcoming corridor from the Livingston area.

-Cole
SnakeDude
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by SnakeDude »

reported one visual encounter (but no documentation) of a Coluber near Mammoth. I found a definitive shed there a few years ago. The park office was uninterested, and I tried emailing Peterson but never got a response.
That's interesting, it seems like they'd be pretty interested in anything they don't have listed already. I went to http://www.nps.gov/yell/naturescience/reptiles.htm and they didn't mention anything about coluber. :roll:
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JakeScott
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by JakeScott »

A really cool place to herp, no doubt. You can take a break from herping and look around you and beautiful.

Have any scenery shots?

-Jake Scott
Brian Eagar
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by Brian Eagar »

Well they say the mind is the first thing to go.
I could swear I remembered the fieldguide saying they were there but you are correct they are only listed in the potential sightings section which is easily found by the index in the back if you look up spadefoot. That must be the section I remembered reading. For some reason I thought the sightings were more concrete. I still say the one that is pictured here is an intermontana. It doesn't have enough of a boss and its coloration is wrong and its nose isn't blunt enough. I have tons of pictures of Great Basin Spadefoots from utah from all types of habitats. Note they make it up to 9000' here so I'm not sure why Peterson thought much of the park was too cold for them and that they might rely on geothermally influenced microclimates within the park. They morph so quickly they don't need much of a growing season or feeding season. As long as they can burrow below frostline they can live just about anywhere. The plains on the other hand are much more of a lowland species that barely comes into Utah due in my estimation to elevational challenges to the north and west. Another good source to consult is Hammerson's guide to Colorado Reptiles and Amphibians for northern boundaries in that state of both species.
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liucommajames
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Re: Herping Yellowstone National Park

Post by liucommajames »

awesome post. i'll be in yellowstone this upcoming week and was hoping to see something other than boring 'ol wolves. Sent you a PM.

James
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