Nesting Hogs, 2011

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Well, even though I’ve been very busy with work this season, I’ve managed to get out to the nesting areas in the evenings to observe one of my favorite herps. I found my first nesting female on June 22nd this year.

Image
P6220053 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P6220054 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P6220068 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

That same night, I found this nice high-contrast animal at an area where I’ve only found one adult before. I photographed this snake exactly as I found it, coiled perfectly in front of a small brush pile.

Image
P6220069 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P6220070 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P6220076 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

A couple nights later on 6/24 I found this burrower at the other main nesting site. Trey (T2K) was with me, and showed his spotting skills by locating two other hogs coiled in the taller grass.

Image
P6240016 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Things really started picking up on the night of 6/26 -- Jeff Moorbeck, Jamie Deboer, Stu (knightkrawler), and I found NINE hogs that night!

As found...she must’ve just emerged after digging almost completely under.

Image
P6260212 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

A fresh burrow from that night.

Image
P6260216 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

The next night (6/27), I found the first nesting female I’ve ever seen at the spot where I found the high-contrast animal coiled in front of the brush pile on 6/22 (see above). This snake also had a very well-defined pattern.

Image
P6270291 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P6270329 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

On 6/28, Steve Barten was up and found 7 burrowers at one site, while Dave Connell found 4 at the other main site the same night.

On 6/29, Matt Ignoffo brought his son Alan up and we had another big night with 7 burrowers found at one site.

I’m pretty sure I recognize this individual.

Image
P6290006 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Alan checkin’ out the big girl.

Image
P6290011 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

A couple more from that night.

Image
P6290035 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P6290055 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

On 7/1, Brian Farnand and I found 9 at one site and 1 at the other.

Image
P7010106 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P7010111 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

There are two burrowing in this shot...a third was on the crawl just a few feet away.

Image
P7010123 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

A couple Brian and I found were very colorful compared to most I’ve seen, and many we found that night were on the smaller side.

Some nice yellows and greens in this one.

Image
P7010143 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P7010185 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Some nice orange in this one.

Image
P7010220 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

Image
P7010227 by Carl Koch, on Flickr

On 7/3, Jason Hood was up and found 4 -- unfortunately all 4 were down in burrows.

On 7/5 and tonight (7/7) I found only one burrower each night...looks like things are winding down.

Carl
User avatar
Crazins
Posts: 269
Joined: June 14th, 2010, 6:49 pm
Location: My car

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Crazins »

Holy moley you make hoggie hunting look so easy! Well done, as usual.
-Marisa
User avatar
monklet
Posts: 2648
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:44 pm
Location: Ventura, CA
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by monklet »

Great stuff :thumb: 8-) Must be lots of fun to witness all that. :beer:
User avatar
Steve Barten
Posts: 162
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:13 pm
Location: NE Illinois

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Steve Barten »

Great post as always, Carl. You discovered very interesting communal nesting behavior here. Some grad student could do a detailed population ecology study at these sites. I wonder how far the females travel to use these communal nests, and how far they disperse off season. I wonder how long the females spend constructing a nest before they lay eggs, and how many of the snakes I saw were the same ones you saw on other evenings (too bad the patterns aren't more distinct). It's always great to see a snake, but to observe nesting behavior is very cool. Thanks for sharing your observations. :mrgreen: :D :thumb:
User avatar
Jon Wedow
Posts: 201
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 7:38 am
Location: Canada

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Jon Wedow »

Awesome stuff! you sure nailed the right day!
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Thanks guys & gal!

Steve - PUHLEEEEEEEEEEZE either do a post on your experience up here or add your pics to this post...you are such a fine photographer, I really want to see your captures of these awesome snakes!!! And regarding your suggestion, I would LOVE to find an open-minded grad student/researcher to do a thorough study of what's going on up here. I've inquired about doing the study myself, as well, but obviously, $ is an issue when looking at pit tags, transmitters, etc., even if I DID get permission/permits.

Carl
User avatar
brick911
Posts: 3488
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:52 am
Location: Morrisville, PA

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by brick911 »

:shock: I'm suddenly feeling very amateur. :lol:

Carl, amazing, amazing, amazing!
User avatar
bigdonniebrasco
Posts: 42
Joined: April 7th, 2011, 8:12 am

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by bigdonniebrasco »

AWESOME post!
Hey Carl, are these animals in WI? I live in KS, so I am not looking for any locale info, just curious if they were in the state of WI, as I know very little about hogs, but thought they were more of a southern animal.

Thanks
Don
Lloyd Heilbrunn
Posts: 285
Joined: June 9th, 2010, 8:15 pm
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Lloyd Heilbrunn »

Neat, pyschs me up for my hoggie trip tomorrow.

Say hi to Trey for me....
bgorum
Posts: 619
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 6:46 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by bgorum »

That's pretty dam cool! What do you think it is about this particular location that makes it so favorable for the females to nest here? How does it differ from the surrounding habitat?
Verhoodled
Posts: 306
Joined: August 7th, 2010, 3:48 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Verhoodled »

What a cool photo series and account! Your photos truly capture the spirit of these huff-n-puff adders.

Sorry the one died on you. ;) Next million dollar idea: hognose difibrillators.
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Thanks for the replies & kudos!

Don - Yep, WI. There are eastern, western, southern, and Mexican hogs -- the easterns & westerns both have very large ranges extending from the top of the U.S. to the bottom.

Lloyd - Will do! Trey's a great guy. Hope your outing was a success!

bgorum - The nesting areas are higher in elevation than the surrounding areas which probably helps with drainage, they get a good amount of sun, they are pretty open (less vegetation), and they are near wetlands (prey for hatchlings).

Carl
User avatar
Knightkrawler5
Posts: 257
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 6:54 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Knightkrawler5 »

It definitely was an awesome couple of weeks for watching that activity!...I wish I would have had more time to go back out there a couple more times
Erik Williams
Posts: 100
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:57 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Erik Williams »

Carl Koch wrote: bgorum - The nesting areas are higher in elevation than the surrounding areas which probably helps with drainage, they get a good amount of sun, they are pretty open (less vegetation), and they are near wetlands (prey for hatchlings).

Carl

Awesome post. I just thought I'd quote the greatest line here - for herpers who are still trying to figure it out, this is the information you want, not specific locations.
User avatar
Mike VanValen
Posts: 2074
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:41 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Mike VanValen »

While seeing these hog nesting posts is truly amazing, it is also a bit frustrating for me. Those habitat shots look exactly like a spot that I have. A yoy eastern hog was seen there in 2006. Five years and many long hours in the field later, I have yet to turn one up.

Thanks once again for sharing these amazing observations!
User avatar
Antonsrkn
Posts: 971
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 2:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Antonsrkn »

Another awesome post, you succeeded in making me miss WI with this.
User avatar
Crimson King
Posts: 337
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:31 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Crimson King »

Great stuff! Possibly the main reason I'd visit WI.
Thanks for the series....
:Mark
keelysue
Posts: 8
Joined: April 14th, 2011, 9:58 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by keelysue »

great post! i'm jealous!
User avatar
kyle loucks
Posts: 3147
Joined: June 8th, 2010, 1:40 am
Location: Pennsylvania- Bucks Co. near Phila.

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by kyle loucks »

Incredible Carl!
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Thanks y'all!

No matter how many times I see this event, I'm still amazed by it and compelled to record it. I'm glad you guys enjoy it too!

Anton - Good to hear from you! Hope to get out in the field again in WI someday with you.

Mike - It took TEN years for me to find my first hog at "Hog Prairie". Of course, a lot of that was my own lack of knowledge, but KEEP TRYING. Also, it took four years to find a nesting female at one of our other spots, and that was when we knew a lot more about what to look for and when to look.

Stu - Yeah, it's been harder to get out this year for me too. I'll just have to come to Colorado if you end up there!

Carl
User avatar
Eric East
Posts: 207
Joined: July 5th, 2010, 5:44 pm
Location: Greenwood, AR

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Eric East »

Man that is so cool! I've never witness anything like that!
Aaron
Posts: 287
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:46 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Aaron »

Great post! I have a question regarding the photo 9th from the top. The one with the text "A fresh burrow from that night."

It looks like the sand is wet, is it? It looks like the water comes from the hole itself, like the female dug down to the water table and tracked it out; opposed to the female doing something like wetting her body and tracking it in.

Captive pythons have been known to bring water to their eggs by soaking in a water dish and tracking it back to the eggs but this photo looks like the female hog dug down to the water table. I have long thought some snake populations depended on water tables but never really sought evidence of it. It would be interesting to find out if these hogs consistently dig to the water table.
User avatar
Steve Atkins
Posts: 744
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:14 pm
Location: Asheville NC

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Steve Atkins »

WOw, how many years have been watching this?

I would have a hard time getting my butt to work if I knew where to find that.
jimoo742
Posts: 546
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 3:43 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by jimoo742 »

Antonsrkn wrote:Another awesome post, you succeeded in making me miss WI with this.

Cosigned, but I miss WI every day (the only part of me that doesn't is my waistline.... cheesecurds, mmmmn).
dthor68
Posts: 295
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 1:26 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by dthor68 »

Very interesting stuff. I have a few questions. One, do they dig there own holes or use existing small mammal burrows? Two, where in the hell do they hide from spring to mid summer? I may find 2 hogs a year and it only happens in Aug, Sep, Oct. I have been at this game for 30 years and have never had luck with hogs! Three, did you just stumble on to this site or was there some planning involved?

Derek
User avatar
Damon Salceies
Posts: 25
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:36 am
Location: New Mexico

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Damon Salceies »

I'm curious to hear more about this because I've seen similar things in other Heterodon. I know of several sites for western hognose in New Mexico that seem to have particularly dense populations. Beginning usually in mid-June the nasicus I'm familiar with engage in very similar burrow digging behavior. The majority (~75%) of the time the animals encountered are female although I have found males. I have never encountered a female in the midst of oviposition. I have found buried animals and animals in the process of excavation. On one occasion I brushed sand away from an actively digging female and found her with a clutch of eggs... one of them was in her mouth. She was seemingly undeterred by my presence and continued to excavate and eat the remaining eggs. One of the eggs ruptured during the process of ingestion and contained a nearly fully developed Gambelia. I have some pictures on an old hard drive... I'll try and find them when I get home tonight.
User avatar
chrish
Posts: 3295
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:14 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by chrish »

I agree that some grad student somewhere could make a great research project from this site. Questions that come to mind are...

1. Why this exact spot?
2. Do females return to the same nest site/area year after year?
3. Were these females born here (i.e. are they returning to their natal nest sites)?
4. Is the nest success higher here than surrounding areas?

You could pit-tag a few females and then be able to read their identity without too much disturbance in subsequent seasons.
It would be cool (assuming it is private property and protected) to set up some motion sensitive cameras to see if there is any nest predation and maybe even observe the emergence of the babies. That second part might be tough because herps don't usually set off motion sensitive cameras by themselves, but it would be fun to try.

So many questions! Awesome post, even without all the answers yet!

Chris
User avatar
Daniel D Dye
Posts: 1220
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:56 pm
Location: New River (Brooker), Florida
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Daniel D Dye »

Wow Carl, more amazing hog nesting. I'm happy to see one or two easterns a year.

I'm having the same questions as Chris...why this place?

Daniel
chad ks
Posts: 634
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 1:31 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by chad ks »

I'd like to know if I can somehow find them behaving the same way here in central Kansas. I can't quite say how remarkable this discovery is to me, truly something major!
Graham
Posts: 8
Joined: June 27th, 2011, 4:26 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Graham »

Those are some awesome snakes you find there carl!! :D would you be willing to tell what areas you checked?
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Thanks for all the replies, encouragement, and interest everyone!

I will do my best to answer your questions. I'll start by responding to Derek and fox cove 4: In 1998 when I was just getting heavily into field herping after a decades-long hiatus, someone told me they had found a gravid female eastern hog-nosed snake at a spot that wasn't too far from my house. I began going there regularly, as eastern hogs were high on my list of WI herps I wanted to find more of. I looked in that area for ten years without finding a hog, though I found lots of other herps. Near the area the person said they found the gravid female was a sand prairie that looked textbook-perfect for hognose. This ended up being the prairie that contains one of the nesting areas we are now aware of.

Fast-forward to the spring of 2008, when I started seeing posts by two guys from my area, Anton Sorokin (HappyAgamid) and Jamie Deboer (jdeboer152), saying they were finding eastern hogs in the vicinity of the area described above. I contacted them both and stepped up my hog-searching efforts. I was rewarded with my first hog at the prairie on 6/26/2008. Shortly thereafter, Jamie and I discovered a hog burrowing at the prairie, and I posted about it on FHF. The response was strong, and even stronger after I posted a few days later about a hog I watched burrow completely underground.

Since then, I have observed these hogs burrowing each year for approximately two weeks, from late June to early July, and have found many hatchlings each fall. Thanks to Jamie and Anton, we have added two other nesting areas to the first.

As for Derek's other questions, they dig their own holes and have also been seen using burrows dug by each other, and I also wish I knew where they go during the rest of the year. We DO find them at other times of the year, but not often. As difficult as they are to see in cover even on the prairie, I imagine they are INCREDIBLY hard to see in the wooded areas that surround the nesting grounds. Not to mention the fact that they spend time underground as well.

Regarding Aaron's question, the moist look of the burrow you asked about is due to the moistness of the sand below the surface layer. The nesting areas are on high ground compared to the surrounding area -- in one case, a distinct ridge, and in the other two, the tops of hills, so I doubt that they are burrowing down to the water table.

Damon - You related a fascinating account of lizard egg predation. Chris Smith also posted about an occurrence of western hogs consuming reptile eggs, and Steve Barten has alluded to data cited in Ernst and Ernst, 2003. I would love to hear more about your observation and would love to see any pictures you have!

As for Chris, Daniel, Chad and Graham - So far here are the commonalities between the three nesting sites: relatively open sandy areas, higher in elevation than surrounding areas (better drainage?), good amount of sun each day, near wetlands (prey for hatchlings), surrounded by a good deal of forest.

I would love to see an open-minded grad student/researcher do a thorough study on these populations to get more answers as to exactly what is going on.

Thanks again for your interest everyone -- it stimulates me to want to know more, too!

Carl
User avatar
Brendan
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:26 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Brendan »

Amazing photos and information as always Carl. It's so nice to see guys like yourself conducting field studies not because you have a paper to write or a degree to attain but simply for the love of the animals. Rich and I do the same thing with rattlesnakes here in AZ and CA and each year we learn so much. Hopefully this is the direction the majority of the hobby goes in some day.
jimoo742
Posts: 546
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 3:43 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by jimoo742 »

I can think of a few people that might guide a student to study this site... Gary Casper (formerly) of the Wisconsin Public Museum does a great deal of WI herp research and I know he also worked with zoo people on it from time to time.
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Brendan - Thanks! I'm certainly enjoying observing and photographing these guys in the wild, and I find it more fulfilling than what I used to do, which was collect animals and try to get them to adapt to life in a cage. I still keep a few CB herps (and one WC corn snake, which to be honest I sometimes regret having collected), but it's SO much easier to leave them in the wild -- you don't have to feed or clean up after a camera! :D

jimoo - I did survey work for Gary for the past two years and have broached the subject of getting a study going on the hogs. Who knows, maybe someday....

Carl
User avatar
Brendan
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:26 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Brendan »

Carl Koch wrote:Brendan - Thanks! I'm certainly enjoying observing and photographing these guys in the wild, and I find it more fulfilling than what I used to do, which was collect animals and try to get them to adapt to life in a cage. I still keep a few CB herps (and one WC corn snake, which to be honest I sometimes regret having collected), but it's SO much easier to leave them in the wild -- you don't have to feed or clean up after a camera! :D

Carl
I know exactly how you feel. I got rid of more than half of my captive collection of snakes this year and I've never been happier. Collecting photos of the same snakes in the wild is much more rewarding than spending your time and money to put snakes in a box. It really changes the approach you take in the field as well. There is no longer the feeling that you might " loose this one" if you don't pounce on it like a cougar. If they get away so be it, just come back again more prepared.
I think many of us are starting to think this way.
User avatar
Carl Koch
Posts: 435
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:45 pm
Location: West Milwaukee, WI

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Carl Koch »

Just read over the last round of questions again, and realized Derek had specifically asked about the period from the beginning of the season until nesting...Jamie Deboer found several hogs this year during that period. Usually, however, we only see a FEW during that time, but nothing like what we're seeing during nesting. Finding them AFTER nesting has been a real challenge with denser foliage and ravenous mosquitoes!

Carl
jimoo742
Posts: 546
Joined: November 4th, 2010, 3:43 pm

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by jimoo742 »

Cool, Gary's a good dude. Hooked me up with the Vogt book... shoot, has to be 15 years ago now... I'm getting old.
User avatar
Norman M. Schlincter
Posts: 44
Joined: July 11th, 2011, 12:38 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Norman M. Schlincter »

I once came across a few gravid animals one evening as well, it is wonderfully refreshing to see such wonderful images of these snakes! A few females from that particular locality formed lovely breeding stock.
dthor68
Posts: 295
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 1:26 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by dthor68 »

Carl, thank you for answering my questions.
User avatar
Jordan S.
Posts: 90
Joined: June 6th, 2011, 5:03 pm
Location: Gainesville
Contact:

Re: Nesting Hogs, 2011

Post by Jordan S. »

Awesome post Carl! That most be fun seeing them make those burrows, and of course, fantastic photos!
-Jordan
Post Reply