I need a second opinion.

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Saunders
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I need a second opinion.

Post by Saunders »

What do you all think this snake is?
It was found in Chaffe County, Colorado on the slopes of Mt. Princeton.
I have had people tell me that it is a Gopher Snake and others have sworn it is a Bullsnake.
I haven't ever seen another pituophis quite like it.
Any help is appreciated.
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justinm
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by justinm »

I once asked Joe Collins what the snakes in extreme Western Kansas were, either Gophersnakes or Bullsnakes. He literally told me that it's who you ask and I asked him lol. He puts in his books that it's a Gophersnake. I think this is why we have binomials, lol.
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The Real Snake Man
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by The Real Snake Man »

Just based on appearance it looks a lot like a bullsnake to me, but range really changes things, especially when you're talking about two very similar types of snake.
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Natalie McNear
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Natalie McNear »

Er... Bullsnakes are a subspecies of gophersnake (Pituophis catenifer), so isn't it both? It does look like P. c. sayi, and from what I can tell they do range into central Colorado. Is there a reason why it wouldn't be a Bullsnake?
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Nick
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Nick »

By appearance I would say it looks like a bullsnake. It is not unlike some of the examples I've found in Indiana.

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You'll probably need to research their range in that area to get a more definitive answer. Could be an intergrade, too...
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Saunders
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Saunders »

I've looked at the range. It's right in the middle of the ranges of the Sayi and the Deserticola.
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Nick
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Nick »

Saunders wrote:I've looked at the range. It's right in the middle of the ranges of the Sayi and the Deserticola.
The range map I saw showed the same thing. Maybe try posting in the Rocky Mountain chapter. Those guys might have a better idea.
herpfriend
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by herpfriend »

Looks like a bullsnake to me.
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azatrox
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by azatrox »

If I found that animal, I'd be calling it a bullsnake.

-Kris
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Ross Padilla
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Ross Padilla »

Overall it does look like a Bull snake. When looking at the shape of its blotches, it resembles a GB Gopher snake as well. Maybe its an intergrade/hybrid :?: Very nice looking snake. :thumb:
Matt Cage
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Matt Cage »

Call it what you want, either way it is Pituophis catenifer. You could find one that looks like that anywhere in Colorado under 10,000 feet. It is a nice looking one!
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Saunders
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Saunders »

Thanks for all the replies guys.
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monklet
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by monklet »

Great looking Bull! The strong face pattern reminds me of a "Kankakee" type but the pattern is reminiscent of Pine to me. 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Lizardman1988
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Lizardman1988 »

They're all the same species. They could all be called gopher snakes, since that common name is attached to the name catenifer, but the subspecies you found is sayi, which would be the bullsnake. That's the only subspecies in Chaffee county.
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MHollanders
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by MHollanders »

The subspecies is insignificant at best – I would just call that catenifer in my field notes.
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Saunders
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Saunders »

I just wanted to know for recording it in NAHERP.
I'd hate to mis-record it.
Matt Cage
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Matt Cage »

Regarding the intergrade zone, there is no exact point or line where it changes, it is a gradual thing as the habitat transitions from the prairies to the east to the desert to the west.
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cayrip
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by cayrip »

bullsnake
bobassetto
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by bobassetto »

burmese python........... :lol:
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Chris Smith
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Chris Smith »

It is Pituophis catenifer. If you want to include a subspecies, I would go with sayi.

-Chris
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Daryl Eby
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Re: I need a second opinion.

Post by Daryl Eby »

bobassetto wrote:burmese python........... :lol:
I've heard they are breeding with rattlers now. Hide the children!
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