Best Database Finds for 2011
Moderator: Scott Waters
Best Database Finds for 2011
These are the finds that I think would be coolest for someone to put in the database in California for 2011. All of them were rumored or thought possible at some point, none are in the database, some of them are unlikely to happen...but any of them would be good. I'll give big props for you if you can come up with one or more of these.
Rubber Boas or Large-blotched Ensatina in the San Gabriel Mountains.
A salamander from really high up on Mount San Gorgonio.
Mountain Kings, Ensatina, or Arboreal Salamanders from the Palos Verdes Peninsula.
A Mountain King from Santa Catalina Island.
A Baja Rat Snake from California.
A Giant Salamander from Big Sur.
Any existing Arizona Toads, Colorado River Toads, Lowland Leopard Frogs, or Sonoran Mud Turtles from California.
Any existing Foothill Yellow-legged Frogs south of Monterey County.
Any new populations of California Red-legged Frogs, Southern Mountain Yellow-legged Frogs, or Arroyo Toads from southern California.
Now, here are a few that certainly exist but aren't in the database and I don't hear much about at all...so it'd be great to see them:
A Regal Ringneck Snake from California.
A current (2010 or 2011) California Red-sided Garter Snake from anywhere south of Santa Barbara County. The database only has two records from Southern California, one from Santa Barbara in 2004 and one from San Bernardino in 2007.
Any new Sonoran Lyre Snakes from California.
A Coast Range Newt from San Diego County.
A Southern Leopard Frog from California.
Any new Gila Monsters from California.
Any Painted Turtles from a reproducing population in California.
Any sea turtles from California other than the Green Sea Turtles.
Finally, here are a few California species that no one has managed to put into the database yet:
Inyo Mountains Slender Salamander
Desert Slender Salamander
Sequoia Slender Salamander
Lesser Slender Salamander
Kings River Slender Salamander
Slender Salamanders from the Breckenridge Mountains or Fairview populations
San Nicolas Night Lizard
Oregon Spotted Frog
Columbia Spotted Frog
Is there anything else that someone would really like to see get put into the database in 2011?
Rubber Boas or Large-blotched Ensatina in the San Gabriel Mountains.
A salamander from really high up on Mount San Gorgonio.
Mountain Kings, Ensatina, or Arboreal Salamanders from the Palos Verdes Peninsula.
A Mountain King from Santa Catalina Island.
A Baja Rat Snake from California.
A Giant Salamander from Big Sur.
Any existing Arizona Toads, Colorado River Toads, Lowland Leopard Frogs, or Sonoran Mud Turtles from California.
Any existing Foothill Yellow-legged Frogs south of Monterey County.
Any new populations of California Red-legged Frogs, Southern Mountain Yellow-legged Frogs, or Arroyo Toads from southern California.
Now, here are a few that certainly exist but aren't in the database and I don't hear much about at all...so it'd be great to see them:
A Regal Ringneck Snake from California.
A current (2010 or 2011) California Red-sided Garter Snake from anywhere south of Santa Barbara County. The database only has two records from Southern California, one from Santa Barbara in 2004 and one from San Bernardino in 2007.
Any new Sonoran Lyre Snakes from California.
A Coast Range Newt from San Diego County.
A Southern Leopard Frog from California.
Any new Gila Monsters from California.
Any Painted Turtles from a reproducing population in California.
Any sea turtles from California other than the Green Sea Turtles.
Finally, here are a few California species that no one has managed to put into the database yet:
Inyo Mountains Slender Salamander
Desert Slender Salamander
Sequoia Slender Salamander
Lesser Slender Salamander
Kings River Slender Salamander
Slender Salamanders from the Breckenridge Mountains or Fairview populations
San Nicolas Night Lizard
Oregon Spotted Frog
Columbia Spotted Frog
Is there anything else that someone would really like to see get put into the database in 2011?
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Just a note:Oregon Spotted Frog
Columbia Spotted Frog
I need to find my reference, but I believe I recall reading that only 7 of the CA museum records for Rana pretiosa are actually Rana pretiosa and all 7 are pit river drainage. Other Rana pretiosa records in CA are mis-identification. Only place they are thought to possibly still be are western side of Warner Mountains (eastern side being where Rana luteiventris might be).
It's rather remote, I would love to backpack it sometime and check out the creeks and ponds and meadows.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Why should I try so hard?
I found a San Simeon Salamander in 2010, and no one threw me a party for it..
I also found a Red sided down here, no party than either
Fundad
I found a San Simeon Salamander in 2010, and no one threw me a party for it..
I also found a Red sided down here, no party than either
Fundad
-
- Posts: 8025
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
- Location: Hesperia, California.
- Contact:
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Hows about an aboreal from the berdoos? A desert whip from eastern SB. and bullsnakes/sonorans from Earp? jim
Along these lines, what was your/the 'best' Ca. find of 010? For me, it was the desert-phase Z Fundad and I cruised... and I don't care what Hubbsy says (Z's are Z's) they've been locally known for 40 yrs, and if they wern't in his book... they should have been...
Brian... slender's don't spin my prop, much... but I'd love to hear more about a red-sided down here... jim
Along these lines, what was your/the 'best' Ca. find of 010? For me, it was the desert-phase Z Fundad and I cruised... and I don't care what Hubbsy says (Z's are Z's) they've been locally known for 40 yrs, and if they wern't in his book... they should have been...
Brian... slender's don't spin my prop, much... but I'd love to hear more about a red-sided down here... jim
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
meh. I stare at that Sam Simeon spot every time I drive by, just never bothered getting out to look (well, I would have if conditions were ever good). You find a new San Simeon spot in between the two different portions of their range, then I'll throw you a party.Fundad wrote:I found a San Simeon Salamander in 2010, and no one threw me a party for it..
If you found a red-sided last year, that makes me happy. If you're just talking about the one you found in 2007, I already gave you props for that, and that was, like, 4 years ago. How many spots are left for those guys in LA/SB/Riverside/Orange/SD Counties?
I don't think I found anything particularly exciting last year....lots of personally exciting stuff, and I helped out with a number of new populations but didn't discover any of them. I guess some of my best database entries in California were an Alameda Striped Racer, a coast range newt on the SD County border, and a possible southern range extension for the Northern Brown Skink subspecies of gilberti. I also stuck in the first Batrachoseps relictus, the first Italian Wall Lizards, and a number of county records in the Bay Area.
If we were going for my own personal enjoyment, then the five Rana muscosa, the P. mccalli, and two localities for Coachella Valley Fringe-toed Lizards were also be up there.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
My best find for 2010 was a Lassen population Cascades frog.
http://www.naherp.com/viewrecord.php?r_id=51528
That meadow (and one close enough that they are considered the same pop) is only one of 7 known remaining locales for the species in the Lassen area. Only two of the 7 are in Shasta County and 1 of those did not have any sightings I believe since 2000 (I'll have to check the paper).
I got lucky, someone sent me a photo with locale for ID. I didn't find it on my own. It's not, however, a previously unknown locale - so it isn't significant to their conservation, other than it got it in our DB.
I'm currently trying to find a way to get to Warner Mountains this summer, doesn't seem likely, about 4.5 hour drive so I would really would have to beg and beg for a lift, but I have a few spots that look like they might be meadows with ponds / creeks push-pinned in Google Earth. I would love to be the guy who gets a voucher photo of a remnant CA R pretiosa complex pop (I'd take either species). Even if I can get there, I know the odds are against me finding one, but dreaming about it is fun anyway. I'd undoubtedly get a bunch of county records so it still would be a trip worth taking.
http://www.naherp.com/viewrecord.php?r_id=51528
That meadow (and one close enough that they are considered the same pop) is only one of 7 known remaining locales for the species in the Lassen area. Only two of the 7 are in Shasta County and 1 of those did not have any sightings I believe since 2000 (I'll have to check the paper).
I got lucky, someone sent me a photo with locale for ID. I didn't find it on my own. It's not, however, a previously unknown locale - so it isn't significant to their conservation, other than it got it in our DB.
I'm currently trying to find a way to get to Warner Mountains this summer, doesn't seem likely, about 4.5 hour drive so I would really would have to beg and beg for a lift, but I have a few spots that look like they might be meadows with ponds / creeks push-pinned in Google Earth. I would love to be the guy who gets a voucher photo of a remnant CA R pretiosa complex pop (I'd take either species). Even if I can get there, I know the odds are against me finding one, but dreaming about it is fun anyway. I'd undoubtedly get a bunch of county records so it still would be a trip worth taking.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Geesh.. I drive all the way there to enter one, find one, enter it. New species, than Not even a atta boy. Man your hard to please.. Why should I try for the new species again, that are on your list???You find a new San Simeon spot in between the two different portions of their range, then I'll throw you a party.
Fundad
- Natalie McNear
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 5:54 pm
- Location: Northern coast of California
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Grand prize: An Arboreal Salamander from the Farallones.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Yes indeed, but I would be just as interested in seeing the Nomadic Orcas that roam those islands, the group that has been killing Great Whites, especially.Grand prize: An Arboreal Salamander from the Farallones.
Fundad
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I'll be photographing SD county newts soon!
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Some additions -
Northern Leopard Frog from Siskiyou county (one remaining known locale, possibly native)
Ambystoma mavortium from Siskiyou county (one locale, apparently introduced)
Not California Chapter, but -
Ambystoma macrodactylum sigillatum from Nevada
I've found them not that far from the border, many moons ago (adult once, larvae once, different trip but same locale)
We don't have any Nevada salamanders.
Northern Leopard Frog from Siskiyou county (one remaining known locale, possibly native)
Ambystoma mavortium from Siskiyou county (one locale, apparently introduced)
Not California Chapter, but -
Ambystoma macrodactylum sigillatum from Nevada
I've found them not that far from the border, many moons ago (adult once, larvae once, different trip but same locale)
We don't have any Nevada salamanders.
-
- Posts: 8025
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
- Location: Hesperia, California.
- Contact:
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
How bout one of those invasive Alb Ca. Kings from that Island in the Eastern Atlantic??? for the grand prize...Fundad wrote:Yes indeed, but I would be just as interested in seeing the Nomadic Orcas that roam those islands, the group that has been killing Great Whites, especially.Grand prize: An Arboreal Salamander from the Farallones.
Fundad
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I was just out at the Farallones last month and its unbelievable that they can survive there. I didn't get a chance to land and actually look around (pretty stiff regulations about going on land because of the bird colonies), but its pretttyyyy bare out there. Not much more then a little bit of grass and a couple small bushes. Would be awesome to see thoughNatalie McNear wrote:Grand prize: An Arboreal Salamander from the Farallones.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
These are great additions!
Jeff - are you going to check out one of the warty populations?
Jeff - are you going to check out one of the warty populations?
- Nature Nate
- Posts: 510
- Joined: August 24th, 2010, 10:14 am
- Location: San Diego
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I spent the summer on Catalina, as some of you remember, and talked to the rangers extensively about the one sighting and they were all convinced that the escaped milk snake from Wrigley's collection and the Z sighting were one in the same. The guys that I talked to the most live on the Island and have visited the Campground where it was found and they say that they have never seen a sign of one there, just plenty of Cal kings and Helleri.jonathan wrote:
A Mountain King from Santa Catalina Island.
Is there anything else that someone would really like to see get put into the database in 2011?
I'll be going back this summer and will try to get a voucher for a garter (the last reptile on the island I havn't seen) and visit the campground where the mountain king was found for myself.
personally I want to find a switaki and living so close to Borrego I'll have to get out there more often and really put in the effort to find it. (would love to have a partner in this endeavor to split the price of the gas ). Currently I think only 5 people have records of them in the database with the majority of sighting by Jeff, of course.
I would definitely love to see a A Baja Rat Snake from California too.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
You mean these things?
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Eimon wrote:You mean these things?
I'm referring to the newts formerly known as klauberi and that have the skin condition running rampant in their population. They're found in the middle of San Diego County, not on the borders. I've never actually gotten to see one before - is that what that one is? Database it!
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
It looks like the percentage of population with warts dropped over time -
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20171285 - first page has a chart.
Finding warty specimens now may be difficult, if the trend continued. Sounds to me like a pathogen the population developed a resistance to.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/20171285 - first page has a chart.
Finding warty specimens now may be difficult, if the trend continued. Sounds to me like a pathogen the population developed a resistance to.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I'd like to see some photos entered from the well-deserved party that everybody's throwing for Fundad, including shots of Hubbs jumping out of a cake.jonathan wrote: Is there anything else that someone would really like to see get put into the database in 2011?
I'd also like to see a zonata from the White Mountains and one of the salamanders reported from there.
Also, a Chilomeniscus from the Algodones.
I can give you some old records for 4 of those slenders if you want them.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I'm surprised you only have four - I thought you had seen Inyo, Sequoia, Lessers, Kings River, and Fairview. Or are you just not counting Fairview because they're not officially described?Gary N wrote:I can give you some old records for 4 of those slenders if you want them.
It would be most ideal if you could enter those directly into the database. It would be awesome if you could enter everything you have into the database someday, of course (especially the northwest stuff - that region is poorly covered for us).
- Brian Hubbs
- Posts: 4735
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:41 am
- Location: "Buy My Books"-land
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I want to find a box of old comic books and 45 records...
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I didn't see Fairview on your list, or any of the other upper Kern forms, but none of them have been described as unique yet, so they are still simatus. That's all Robert Hansen's realm, so you should pester him if you want those records. He probably wants to keep them secret still.jonathan wrote:I'm surprised you only have four - I thought you had seen Inyo, Sequoia, Lessers, Kings River, and Fairview. Or are you just not counting Fairview because they're not officially described?Gary N wrote:I can give you some old records for 4 of those slenders if you want them.
It would be awesome if I lived long enough to do that. I'll try to figure out how to do it and start with the Batrachoseps. By northwest, do you mean OR, and WA, or around Del Norte?jonathan wrote:It would be most ideal if you could enter those directly into the database. It would be awesome if you could enter everything you have into the database someday, of course (especially the northwest stuff - that region is poorly covered for us).
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Yeah, I put Fairview in a funny place so I'm not surprised you didn't see it.
It's bloody awesome that you're going to start entering records. Those batrachoseps (heck, any batrachoseps other than attenuatus, major, and nigriventris) would be a great start, as well as Oregon and Washington. If you want to I could make a priority list after that.
It's bloody awesome that you're going to start entering records. Those batrachoseps (heck, any batrachoseps other than attenuatus, major, and nigriventris) would be a great start, as well as Oregon and Washington. If you want to I could make a priority list after that.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I already sold all my old 45s, dude, but this looks like a record you need to find.Brian Hubbs wrote:I want to find a box of old comic books and 45 records...
-
- Posts: 8025
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
- Location: Hesperia, California.
- Contact:
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I'd like to see some of Teel's new boa locales.. Oooop's jim
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Has anyone entered any of these yet this year?
When I get a little time I'll make a post of everyone's suggestions for best finds at the bottom of this thread and then credit anyone who gets any of them.
When I get a little time I'll make a post of everyone's suggestions for best finds at the bottom of this thread and then credit anyone who gets any of them.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
A party is cool, but do we have to HIM jump out of the cake..'d like to see some photos entered from the well-deserved party that everybody's throwing for Fundad, including shots of Hubbs jumping out of a cake.
Fundad
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
alright...im just gonna have to find all these not recorded animals than....
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I entered a 2009 Leatherback turtle sighting in 2011. Didn't know about the database in 2009...
Probably doesn't count, but there you are.
There have been leatherback sightings in the Monterey Bay again this year, so I'll try and go out again soon. Maybe I'll get lucky twice. If so, I should probably start worrying about getting hit by lightning repeatedly.
JimM
Leatherback Sea Turtle, Dermochelys coriacea by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Probably doesn't count, but there you are.
There have been leatherback sightings in the Monterey Bay again this year, so I'll try and go out again soon. Maybe I'll get lucky twice. If so, I should probably start worrying about getting hit by lightning repeatedly.
JimM
Leatherback Sea Turtle, Dermochelys coriacea by J. Maughn, on Flickr
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
Yes that counts! That's an awesome entry!JAMAUGHN wrote:I entered a 2009 Leatherback turtle sighting in 2011. Didn't know about the database in 2009...
Probably doesn't count, but there you are.
With these rare entries, getting historical records that show their presence in the area at some point are just as important as going out and finding them there now. A lot of this stuff is rarely seen, so there might not be a good chance of getting it in 2011, but it'd be nice to show that some herper, at some point, had seen them there.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
In that case, I updated the entry with gps coordinates from google earth. While not exactly exact, they should be fairly close. I know the animal was over the submarine canyon, not too far from Moss Landing.
It was eating jellyfish.
Wish I could have gotten a picture of that.
It was eating jellyfish.
Wish I could have gotten a picture of that.
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
FunkyRes wrote:Just a note:Oregon Spotted Frog
Columbia Spotted Frog
I need to find my reference, but I believe I recall reading that only 7 of the CA museum records for Rana pretiosa are actually Rana pretiosa and all 7 are pit river drainage. Other Rana pretiosa records in CA are mis-identification. Only place they are thought to possibly still be are western side of Warner Mountains (eastern side being where Rana luteiventris might be).
It's rather remote, I would love to backpack it sometime and check out the creeks and ponds and meadows.
I just noticed this note on californiaherps.com:
http://www.californiaherps.com/frogs/pa ... ntris.htmlIn California, only one frog has been recorded recently; a juvenile found in Cedarville, Modoc County.
Anyone know how recent that record is?
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
That is a feather I'd love to have in my cap!JAMAUGHN wrote:I entered a 2009 Leatherback turtle sighting in 2011.JimM
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
The Leatherback turtle gets my vote for best of California..
Fundad
Fundad
Re: Best Database Finds for 2011
I know of at least one certain Leatherback sighting this summer. The captain of the Sanctuary Cruises boat saw one. They apparently enter the Monterey Bay every June-August to eat jellies. Would it be worth asking the whale watching crews that work the bay to join the database, and enter the turtles when they see them? I can ask, if anyone thinks it's a good idea.
I hope the Leatherback wins. I've always wanted to see a Farallones Whiteshark-Eating Arboreal Salamander.
JimM
I hope the Leatherback wins. I've always wanted to see a Farallones Whiteshark-Eating Arboreal Salamander.
JimM