.. so it looks like this done got "run over" chris ... fact is ; in any state on a paved public rd. rode croozing is gonna be unreasonable & prudent speed after dark ... specially to a trooper needing to hit his toaster quota ... again ... or mebbe its 2x or thrice .... i suggest ewetok2me b4 you go off doing surveys ... oxo
from my files ...
OK legal begals, against my better druthers..let me rise to the bait...
This is a grey area, it is not black & white. While rigid personalities crave clarity, the law is so often not clear. But understand "Road cruising" is not illegal in AZ.
But first understand, you don't need to be in violation of a law to get a ticket & be convicted, we do afterall, live in an imperfect world.
You can't take wildlife with the aid of a vehicle, AZ law prohibits it. Ok lets disect this, when does "take" occur (most of you do not know the definition of "take" & I refer you to the AGFD regulations to get a somewhat nebulous definition of it...ie what is it "to pursue")? Obviously every hunter that drives to their hunting area enables their "take" with the use of a vehicle, yet they are not in violation of this rule, therefore one can be actively engaged as well as disengaged in pursuit, while participating in the general hunting activity (another example, while in camp you have disengaged from "take").
The Enforcement Directive (these are available to the public) pertaining to vehicle enforcement operations (offroad vehicle hunting is not addressed here) is (or was), if the shooter shoots from the vehicle or from the maintained portion of the road, or shoots across the roadway...they get hammered. If they exit the vehicle and shoot from the shoulder away from the road....no arrest; despite the fact that they used the vehicle to get into a position to "take".
Therefore using this E.D.; a herp hunter who does a driveby snatch of a live snake w/o exiting the vehicle should be hammered (this manouver is especially hard to do from a 4x4 truck!). One who exits the vehicle and collects by hand is legal. Cowboy types who road cruise (theres lots of this happening, believe it or not) need to "chouse" the snake off the roadway (during daylight), before killing it w/ a firearm. Clubbing it in the roadway though is legal.
"Take" implys wildlife, not wild-dead, so my roadcruising for DOR feeder snakes is not "take" (though you need a license to subsequently transport the carcasses!). I have stopped any number of folks cruising for arachnids, these legally are not "take" either.
The proscription against road hunting was never intended to regulate herp hunters, it was a safety & fair chase issue involving game & guns. It is interesting that most Game Rangers treat it this way, yet many will readily enforce the "using artificial light" rule which was enacted to reduce big game poaching at night & thus similarily had nothing to do w/ herps. Mature officers will focus on license, species, and baglimits. Biologically there is no issue as a herp that crosses a well traveled roadway is doomed sooner or later.
Herp hunters should be aware that their are a host of traffic laws they can potentially violate if they aren't careful; leaving an unattended vehicle on a roadway, straddling the center line etc. When traffic comes up behind you, either speed up or exit the roadway safely. All cops observing you are going to stop you assuming you're a righteous DUI. Keeping your movements slow, your hands in sight, possesion of the appropriate license and finally a reasonable demeanor are advised.
If during a stop, you are not treated as a valued customer, proper documentation of the event is appropriate along with a letter to the agency director.
Cheers, John Gunn
Subj: [Fwd: Clarification on legal issues]
Date: 10/29/00 11:47:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time
From:
[email protected] (Hans F. Koenig)
To:
[email protected] (John Gunn)
--------------------
John-
Missed you at the meeting on Tuesday. Had you been there, you would have
heard the complete discussion, not just an opinion of one of the
attendees.
Most, if not all, of your points were discussed by Ray or myself. Mike
Demlong also attended. In all, we were there for 21/2 hours. I enjoyed
visiting with the folks after the talk.
I am forwarding an e-mail that I sent to Kerby regarding his comments on
the issue. Note that he started the discussion this Summer by reporting
that a friend had received a citation from Jimmy Simmons for road
hunting and spotlighting
when in fact, his friend was cited only for spotlighting.
Just completed comments for Stebbins on his Field Guide. Hope they make
the deadline for the revision due out next year (?).
Looking forward to putting my stuff down for Winter. How are your
Ringnecks fairing?
Regards.
Hans
--------------------
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John-
Missed you at the meeting on Tuesday. Had you been there, you would
have
heard the complete discussion, not just an opinion of one of the attendees.
Most, if not all, of your points were discussed by Ray or myself. MikeDemlong also attended. In all, we were there for 21/2hours. I enjoyed visiting with the folks after the talk.
I am forwarding an e-mail that I sent to Kerby regarding his comments on the issue. Note that he started the discussion this Summer by reporting that a friend had received a citation from Jimmy Simmons for road huntingand spotlighting
when in fact, his friend was cited only for spotlighting.
Just completed comments for Stebbins on his Field Guide. Hope they makethe deadline for the revision due out next year (?).
Looking forward to putting my stuff down for Winter. How are your Ringnecksfairing?
Regards.
Hans
--------------------
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Message-ID: <
[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:40:05 -0600
From: "Hans F. Koenig" <
[email protected]>
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To:
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CC: Ritt Enderson <
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Subject: Clarification on legal issues
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Hi, Kerby-
I wanted to clarify the road hunting issues I discussed at the AHA
meeting
last Tuesday. Your post in the AHA Forum 10/25/00 gave me the impression
that you had some concerns about some of the things that I talked about.
While discussing the option of changing the current regulations to
permit road hunting for herps, I did not state that the AHA should not
make an issue of the existing laws or Rules. I did, however, point out
that Arizona's highways and byways were not intended for herp hunting
activities like road cruising. As a consequence, agencies such as the
Arizona Department of Transportation and the Department of Public Safety
(DPS) might oppose these changes. I did not mention County Sheriffs in
that statement. As I am sure you are aware, the DPS already has the
authority per A.R.S. Title 28 to issue citations for hindering or
obstructing traffic, whether one is hunting or not.
My slides displaying the regulations regarding road hunting and the
subsequent discussions hopefully clarified the current laws/rules
pertaining to road hunting and how they are currently enforced by the
Department. When enforcing or interpreting the law, one must still take
into consideration other factors which may "gray" the "black & white"
you mention. Among those factors are the letter of the law and the
actual intent of the law. Herp hunting,especially road cruising,was not
a popular past time when most wildlife laws were written. These laws
were mainly directed at small game including waterfowl and big game
species.
My statement regarding inquiries from out of state hunters about road
cruising
was in reference to the confusion and controversy resulting from the
internet posts on this topic. It had nothing to do with lost revenue
from license sales.
I would be willing to discuss these and other management issues you may
have on the phone at your convenience.
Sincerely,
Hans
& by the way ; gunn : brother Hans is now dead so hes tell'n nothing moe ... : { RIP Bro