dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

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coolhl7
Posts: 26
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:44 pm

dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by coolhl7 » April 26th, 2017, 5:30 pm

is this just a dark morph or southern x black

santa rosa co

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Jimi
Posts: 1836
Joined: December 3rd, 2010, 12:06 pm

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by Jimi » April 26th, 2017, 7:48 pm

I've long considered the intergrade zones to produce some of the more interesting pines...nice animal you saw there. I like that look.

cheers

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BillMcGighan
Posts: 2300
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:23 am
Location: Unicoi, TN

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by BillMcGighan » April 27th, 2017, 4:16 am

Jimi’s right. The Pit variation in that county with integration is neat.
Check the diversity of DB records 266150, 263843, 116167, and 74653

coolhl7
Posts: 26
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by coolhl7 » April 27th, 2017, 2:44 pm

BillMcGighan wrote:Jimi’s right. The Pit variation in that county with integration is neat.
Check the diversity of DB records 266150, 263843, 116167, and 74653

how do I check those records?
thanks....

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BillMcGighan
Posts: 2300
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 8:23 am
Location: Unicoi, TN

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by BillMcGighan » April 27th, 2017, 4:16 pm

Go to this URL:
http://www.naherp.com/


On the main screen, select "search records". (It's on the left.)


With this search screen menu, use applicable pull down menus.



Image


Example:
For these 4 records,
pull down GROUP - SNAKES
pull down GENUS - PITUOPHIS


pull down COUNTRY - UNITED STATES
pull down STATE - FLORIDA
pull down COUNTY - SANTA ROSA COUNTY


Then select the "search" button.

If you herp allot, you may consider contributing to the data base...

coolhl7
Posts: 26
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by coolhl7 » April 27th, 2017, 4:39 pm

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

simus343
Posts: 566
Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by simus343 » April 28th, 2017, 11:47 am

Those records are all pure Southern (Florida) Pines. Intergrades become more obvious when the pattern becomes under-toned to an almost solid brown-black shade like record 275404 that I put in last night. It was my first actual intergrade (and DOR too, sadly). I recorded it as a Florida Pine, because that's technically what they still are, even though they do have influence of Black Pines.

That one in question may have some black influence in it from a pairing many many years ago, but it's definitely leaning towards a dark Florida Pine rather than intergrade, based on all the pines I've seen in Santa Rosa.

coolhl7
Posts: 26
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by coolhl7 » April 28th, 2017, 6:22 pm

simus343 wrote:Those records are all pure Southern (Florida) Pines. Intergrades become more obvious when the pattern becomes under-toned to an almost solid brown-black shade like record 275404 that I put in last night. It was my first actual intergrade (and DOR too, sadly). I recorded it as a Florida Pine, because that's technically what they still are, even though they do have influence of Black Pines.

That one in question may have some black influence in it from a pairing many many years ago, but it's definitely leaning towards a dark Florida Pine rather than intergrade, based on all the pines I've seen in Santa Rosa.
makes me sick to see a DOR snake of any type but esp Pines...the first pine I ever saw was on Eglin Airforce base near Indigo pond,,,it was on a sandy road, its head severed.....I live in Okaloosa co, Fl and no snake is safe on the road here....
there has been an amazing decrease in number and diversity of snakes, live and DOR over the 29 years I have been herping these roads....very sad....

simus343
Posts: 566
Joined: March 30th, 2014, 12:16 pm
Location: Okaloosa ca, Fla.

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by simus343 » April 29th, 2017, 5:49 am

coolhl7 wrote:
simus343 wrote:Those records are all pure Southern (Florida) Pines. Intergrades become more obvious when the pattern becomes under-toned to an almost solid brown-black shade like record 275404 that I put in last night. It was my first actual intergrade (and DOR too, sadly). I recorded it as a Florida Pine, because that's technically what they still are, even though they do have influence of Black Pines.

That one in question may have some black influence in it from a pairing many many years ago, but it's definitely leaning towards a dark Florida Pine rather than intergrade, based on all the pines I've seen in Santa Rosa.
makes me sick to see a DOR snake of any type but esp Pines...the first pine I ever saw was on Eglin Airforce base near Indigo pond,,,it was on a sandy road, its head severed.....I live in Okaloosa co, Fl and no snake is safe on the road here....
there has been an amazing decrease in number and diversity of snakes, live and DOR over the 29 years I have been herping these roads....very sad....

Yeah. There's actually a reason behind it on Eglin besides persecution though. Eglin has almost no Gopher Tortoises, and stump holes quickly fill in after a rain or two because the soil is so sandy with almost no clay. They use aerial ignition during a lot of their burns which traps any animal within the fire. They're finding large amounts of dead snakes and box turtles post-fire, so much that their fires are believes to be causing more snake decline on Eglin than human persecution.

Don't get my wrong, fire is a good thing, but they either need more Gopher Tortoises (like they are finally receiving, it's now a recipient site), or they need to stop using aerial ignition to do their burns.

If this snake in question was on Eglin, it's definitely just a pure Florida Pine that is dark.

I also would not reveal any locations, I'd edit out the location if I were you. Even though all herps are protected on Eglin (and herping is technically against reservation rules), that won't stop unscrupulous poachers from raining down or an army of kids with no respect for the habitat storming in and pestering every last thing to the point of over-stress.

coolhl7
Posts: 26
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:44 pm

Re: dark southern pine vs ???hybrid

Post by coolhl7 » April 29th, 2017, 8:43 am

simus343 wrote:
coolhl7 wrote:
simus343 wrote:Those records are all pure Southern (Florida) Pines. Intergrades become more obvious when the pattern becomes under-toned to an almost solid brown-black shade like record 275404 that I put in last night. It was my first actual intergrade (and DOR too, sadly). I recorded it as a Florida Pine, because that's technically what they still are, even though they do have influence of Black Pines.

That one in question may have some black influence in it from a pairing many many years ago, but it's definitely leaning towards a dark Florida Pine rather than intergrade, based on all the pines I've seen in Santa Rosa.
makes me sick to see a DOR snake of any type but esp Pines...the first pine I ever saw was on Eglin Airforce base near Indigo pond,,,it was on a sandy road, its head severed.....I live in Okaloosa co, Fl and no snake is safe on the road here....
there has been an amazing decrease in number and diversity of snakes, live and DOR over the 29 years I have been herping these roads....very sad....

Yeah. There's actually a reason behind it on Eglin besides persecution though. Eglin has almost no Gopher Tortoises, and stump holes quickly fill in after a rain or two because the soil is so sandy with almost no clay. They use aerial ignition during a lot of their burns which traps any animal within the fire. They're finding large amounts of dead snakes and box turtles post-fire, so much that their fires are believes to be causing more snake decline on Eglin than human persecution.

Don't get my wrong, fire is a good thing, but they either need more Gopher Tortoises (like they are finally receiving, it's now a recipient site), or they need to stop using aerial ignition to do their burns.

If this snake in question was on Eglin, it's definitely just a pure Florida Pine that is dark.

I also would not reveal any locations, I'd edit out the location if I were you. Even though all herps are protected on Eglin (and herping is technically against reservation rules), that won't stop unscrupulous poachers from raining down or an army of kids with no respect for the habitat storming in and pestering every last thing to the point of over-stress.
That snake was not from Eglin......
I see very few Gopher tortoise holes on Eglin.....
as far as fire, I was driving Blackwater from 6am to 8:00 today and saw not one snake on the road or trails and it was 73 degrees and very humid...I am no fire expert but the more Blackwater burns the more ferns grow and less native grasses and wildflowers....must be those winter burns or something .......The only snakes I saw were copperheads and water mocassins on my 45 acres....I did take a photo of what was probably last years gopher tortoise I found on a power cut...will post photo later ...
norm

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