Weird Salamander

Dedicated exclusively to field herping.

Moderator: Scott Waters

Post Reply
User avatar
Noah M
Posts: 2289
Joined: November 3rd, 2012, 6:00 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Weird Salamander

Post by Noah M » January 13th, 2017, 6:40 am

Alright, what about this one?

I'm 100% sure it is Ambystoma opacum, but is this a patternless one, a juvenile that will later get a pattern, or a melanistic one? The only white I saw anywhere on it was on the toes.

ImageIMG_6788-2 by Noah Mueller, on Flickr

User avatar
JakeScott
Posts: 689
Joined: June 7th, 2010, 4:26 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Re: Weird Salamander

Post by JakeScott » January 14th, 2017, 12:16 pm

The picture you shared with me looked like a much larger salamander (in-hand pic), which is why I stated that it appears to be melanistic. Metamorphing opacum [generally] do not acquire guanophores until after the gills have absorbed. Here, I made a little something for you.

Image

User avatar
Noah M
Posts: 2289
Joined: November 3rd, 2012, 6:00 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Re: Weird Salamander

Post by Noah M » January 14th, 2017, 10:28 pm

Given its size, I would actually say it is likely to be similar to the top right of your sequence.

Here it is next to a known adult. It is obviously a bit smaller. These two were found under the same log.
ImageIMG_6800-2 by Noah Mueller, on Flickr

User avatar
Noah M
Posts: 2289
Joined: November 3rd, 2012, 6:00 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Re: Weird Salamander

Post by Noah M » January 14th, 2017, 10:30 pm

Also, Nate says this is not a Desmog but instead Eurycea. I counted 5 toes on the hind feet, which means if it is Eurycea, then it is a 2-lined or a 3-lined. But, considering that Desmogs are far and away more common in this area, I thought it was just that, an Apalachicola Dusky.

Thoughts?

ImageIMG_6654-2 by Noah Mueller, on Flickr

User avatar
mtratcliffe
Posts: 533
Joined: January 19th, 2014, 4:34 pm
Location: Springfield, VA

Re: Weird Salamander

Post by mtratcliffe » January 15th, 2017, 7:13 am

This is all assuming that Northern and Southern Two-lined Salamanders have similar larva forms, but the Northern Two-lined larvae I find behind my house have two rows of light dots where the "lines" will eventually form in the adults. This one does not appear to have that. A quick Google search produced some pictures of both larval forms, and Three-lineds did not appear to have those rows of dots.

The above is completely non-scientific but perhaps it will help. Below are some Northern Two-lined Larvae for reference (you can see the rows I'm talking about):

ImageDSCN9698 by Matthew Ratcliffe, on Flickr

ImageDSCN9703 by Matthew Ratcliffe, on Flickr

ImageDSCN9700 by Matthew Ratcliffe, on Flickr

User avatar
Noah M
Posts: 2289
Joined: November 3rd, 2012, 6:00 pm
Location: Gainesville, FL
Contact:

Noah M

Post by Noah M » January 15th, 2017, 8:46 am

I've seen known Apalachicola duskies with "spots", because they have a pattern on their backs as juveniles, but they are variable. The photo here reminds me of those and looks similar to what I think are Ocoee larvae I found in NC (which some folks also said were Eurycea :crazyeyes: ). There needs to be a guide book to sally larvae. They're really hard to ID!

I thought the main difference between these two genus were hind leg stoutness, relative to front legs. Desmogs have thick back legs. The hind legs on this guy looked stout to me, but I could be wrong.

For example, I'm 99% sure these are Desmogs in large part because of habitat and abundance.
http://www.naherp.com/photo.php?v_id=329836
http://www.naherp.com/photo.php?v_id=322588

Post Reply