Undescribed species

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steeve11
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Joined: June 29th, 2016, 12:15 am

Undescribed species

Post by steeve11 » July 17th, 2016, 10:35 pm

Hi, I'm new here and looking around, I see that most of the interest is in local snake species; Correct? I am an Entomologist by hoby, but started Herping by myself just over a year ago on my new Property in San Diego County; age 70 now. Wish I had someone to come out and show me the ropes.
So far I have found 3 species of Croats on my land, including C. mitchelli, 2 morphs of Cal Kings, 1 huge Rosy, a Lyre snake, several Gophers and some striped racers. After investigating on-line and discovering the huge and colorful species diversity in the Lampropeltis genus, I bought a few to keep as pets, including some of the Mexicana complex, a pyro, and a beautiful line-bread Blairs Alterna,(my favorite).
That introduction out of the way, I wanted to see if anyone has ever seen or heard about a snake I found in Guatemala about 5 years ago, while on a Beetle and moth collecting trip, near the Honduras border. According to my friend and Guide, who works at the University in Guatemala, it was, (at the time) an undescribed species of Arboreal Viper. We took it back to the University where they hoped to breed it to another specimen they had in their dilapidated little collection room. I was told that ours was only the third specimen ever reported. It is a primarily green snake that has Croatalus-like texture and features. some of the scales are blue and the last few inches of the pointed tail are all blue(no rattles). We found it about 3 feet off the ground on a fern. if there is any one interested, I will try to post some pictures.

ADCIII
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Joined: August 26th, 2010, 9:56 am

Re: Undescribed species

Post by ADCIII » July 18th, 2016, 7:39 am

Yes there are some members here that have experience in that area and I hope they will reply soon. Please show your pictures as I'm sure we would enjoy them. Also, WELCOME.. -- Art

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Jeff
Posts: 531
Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:01 am
Location: Louisiana

Re: Undescribed species

Post by Jeff » July 18th, 2016, 2:38 pm

It could be this guy, described in 2000.

http://reptile-database.reptarium.cz/sp ... e%27%29%29

There is another species from Honduras described in 2013 (B. guifarroi), and a new one from Costa Rica described last week.

http://reptile-database.reptarium.cz/ad ... mit=Search

Jeff

steeve11
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Joined: June 29th, 2016, 12:15 am

Re: Undescribed species

Post by steeve11 » July 19th, 2016, 1:17 am

That is very close in appearance, but ours had very little blue spotting with no pattern on the dorsal, and had an all blue tail. Head look somewhat different too. The type locality listed is Izabal, which is adjacent to our location about 10 miles north of Morales in the refuge. (it was not listed as a refuge at the time we were there with permission from the land owner). Image
Image

steeve11
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Joined: June 29th, 2016, 12:15 am

Re: Undescribed species

Post by steeve11 » July 19th, 2016, 1:23 am

well that seemed to work; here's a couple more with the habitat.
Image
Image

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Paul Freed
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Location: Pacific Northwest (Oregon) U.S.

Re: Undescribed species

Post by Paul Freed » July 19th, 2016, 7:09 am

It looks just like the Bothriechis rowleyi that we maintained at the Houston Zoo for years, although that species is found further northwest into Chiapas and Oaxaca, Mexico.
-Paul

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WSTREPS
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Joined: June 9th, 2010, 3:03 pm

Re: Undescribed species

Post by WSTREPS » July 19th, 2016, 8:37 am

I'm going to hesitantly agree with the post Id'ing the snake as Bothriechis thalassinus. This based on locality information. Without having the snake in hand or having highly detailed photos its impossible to make a positive ID. The general appearance is shared by Bothriechis bicolor (probably the most likely to be confused with regionally) and others in the complex. The physical difference's between the two (thalassinus and bicolor) are very subtle. The amount of blue spotting and dorsal pattern is variable among individual snakes within the species and in the complex. In this case you have to go with your friends ID'ing the snake as something other then bicolor. That would leave Bothriechis thalassinus in my opinion as the most likely (ID based on the information given). Finding any Bothriechis particularly in that region is way up on the cool list of snake finds.

Ernie Eison

stock pic. of Bothriechis thalassinus for comparison. (assuming the snake in the pic was correctly Id'ed)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8234/8395 ... ccaf_z.jpg

steeve11
Posts: 12
Joined: June 29th, 2016, 12:15 am

Re: Undescribed species

Post by steeve11 » July 19th, 2016, 3:24 pm

Thanks for the comments. That trip was in May, 2006.
BTW, yesterday evening I found another Crotalus ..I believe Sp. rubra but maybe a s. pacific diamond. not good on identifying these. it was on the crawl on the road down to my mailbox about dusk. I dropped a box over it so I could see him better today in the light. will post pics if it is still there. I would like to find out if there are any herpers in my area, just south of Ramona, Ca, that I could contact for info, and would be happy to have them come by for a hunt on and around my 25 acre parcel, which borders on 2 sides with a large nature preserve. Everything I find here is out and about, I have not tried "flipping" or "board placement"
cheers

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SurfinHerp
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Joined: October 18th, 2010, 7:55 pm
Location: San Diego, CA
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Re: Undescribed species

Post by SurfinHerp » July 19th, 2016, 4:43 pm

Hi Steeve,

I live nearby in Rancho Penasquitos and would be glad to visit your property to do some herping with you. Sounds like a great place!

I'll send you a private message with my contact info.

In the meantime, I highly recommend that you spend some time researching local herps on http://www.californiaherps.com

It's an excellent website that covers almost everything you need to know.

Cheers,

Jeff N.

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chrish
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Re: Undescribed species

Post by chrish » July 19th, 2016, 9:07 pm

You might PM the user HERP.MX (see the post on Bone-tailed Vipers).

I know they have been doing some work with arboreal vipers in southern Mexico so might be familiar with your snake.

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