Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

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Zach_Lim
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Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Zach_Lim »

Hey everyone,

Yesterday, during one of my runs/workout sessions through Golden Gate Park, I noticed something crushed and dead on the sidewalk while heading home. I figured it was just an earthworm or a large Batrachoseps, as the City has been experiencing some moisture/drizzle for a few nights now.

I get up to it and my jaw drops:

Image

Image

A Sharp-tailed Snake!

I have spent a lot of time digging through the CAS online herp database searching for herps recorded in San Francisco. I do not believe that a sharp-tailed has ever been found (or at least recorded) in SF proper. To make this matter more interesting, this was literally 3 blocks away from my house (about 1/2 mile from the beach).

This got me thinking. Was this snake a native to my area that had gone undetected until now? Or, and most likely, a stowaway in some mulch/firewood/rocks/dirt that someone or the city put out to use?

I found a DOR Yellow-bellied Racer about 5 blocks away from this general area last year (another county record). Again, same questions- bird dropped it? Stow-away? High-unlikely native?

I collected the DOR specimen and it is sitting in my freezer for further instructions....
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by RobertH »

Awesome find, Zach. That is what herping is all about. Keep us posted on further developments. I hope, for you, that is is indeed native to the area.

Robert
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Calfirecap »

I'd bet you they are in San Francisco proper, but mostly undetected because they are usually under stuff and most people aren't paying any attention. A flat DOR sharp-tail would only be noticed by 1 in 10,000.
Outstanding find!
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by ricrabt »

Now go find a live one....words spoken to me in 2010. Then its write up time in herp review. ...
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Fieldnotes »

Due to the dark, bold ventral crossbars it appears to be Contia tenuis -- Interesting find.
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by hellihooks »

you found the mummy... now go find the babies... :lol:
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Cool dude :thumb: some fuel for thought... the sharptail populations out here in placer never seemed to hold slenders. In fact, I have never flipped a slender and sharptail together. But I knew a couple places where you could flip 10-15 shatptail on the right day. Something I always saw under there with them were tiny bite sized black slugs. I know you guys in the bay have a lot more surfaced slenders than out here, so this may not apply.... but, if the sharptail are scarce in a place with no slenders. Flip a few logs and rocks looking for the slugs. They should be condensed in little populations, so once you find the food source lay out some cardboard boxes, layered on top of each other. If you get em out before the week of rain we're expecting, could have a sharpy this spring. We had a pretty good rain here. If its the same there, the slugs should be easy to find. Slugs may be a more perfered meal as well...maybe thats why you guys dont see as many sharptail out there (from what Ive heard)... also, going off banana slug comparison as a food source for newts (yellow in bay, green in sierras) the little tanish yellow ones could be what you got out there.

Get a live one! If you do, photo the slugs :beer:
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

hellihooks wrote:you found the mummy... now go find the babies... :lol:
:lol: :lol: :thumb:
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Jeff
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Jeff »

Zach

Do you have the 1966 paper by Banta and Morafka on the herpetofauna of San Francisco? They report them from Mt. Davidson and from Ulloa at Rockaway. If I recall, the latter is near the park. I'm guessing that a check of the Cal Academy database will have more sharptail records from San Francisco.

Sharptails have odd pockets of occurrence. Owen and I found only one out of hundreds of snakes along Guadalupe Creek, but they seemed to be routine over the hill to the east.

Jeff
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Jeff,
During my review of all vouchered Contia, I do not recall ever having examined one from San Francisco County. And in a private message from Dr. Chris Feldman to Zach and myself, Chris mentioned that very point. The maps Chris produced in our formal description of the Forest Sharp-tailed Snake does not show any specimen of either species from SF.

In a messages to Zach some time ago and the again recently, I have felt that there is a chance that both species of Contia might occur in SF County should there still be some ‘residual’ suitable habitat.

As for densities of C. tenuis, on October 25 and 26, 2001 at a site in southern Polk Co. Oregon, I recorded 123 specimens. In a field of about 2 – 3 hectares at the west edge of Wheatland, Calif., John Stephenson and myself counted something in excess of 100 Sharp-tails in about a 2 – 3 hour span.

Richard F. Hoyer
Zach_Lim
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Zach_Lim »

Thank you all for the replies. I am now going to focus on herping within the City in order to find a Sharp-tailed, as well as other species that have not been recorded in a while or before. This will also help me save money on gas herping elsewhere haha.

I've got boards laid out in different parts of the city (around the coast as well as the southern portion) in hopes of a Rubber Boa...maybe I'll need to focus on Mt. Davidson, Twin Peaks, etc as mentioned by Jeff.

Also, Jeff, no, I have not read that paper! Is it available anywhere online? I am VERY interested in this.

Richard- I still have the frozen DOR specimen. I can ship it out to you or Chris or Erica Ely anytime.
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by hellihooks »

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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Richard F. Hoyer wrote: In a field of about 2 – 3 hectares at the west edge of Wheatland, Calif., John Stephenson and myself counted something in excess of 100 Sharp-tails in about a 2 – 3 hour span
That sounds about right, give or take a few snakes... the spot I was referring to was about an acre. What was the habitat like and find density of the snakes? Oak woodlands I assuming with a creek running though to provide the right moisture. In that one acre (a little less than a half hectare) I only found the snakes near large oak trees and assumed they were using the system as a cavernous contia hotel, so to speak. It seemed the root system created not only a safe haven, but probably tunnels much larger than worm holes where the snakes could live, breed, lay eggs in, and feed comfortably. There were only a few large oaks, among the many, that the snakes were found under. AC was the means of finds, ruffly about 20 objects, and snakes were never found beneath an object that did not have shade over it, provided by the tree for part of the day. The snakes were found in only about 2,000 square ft of that acre. Each tree providing only about 1,000 square feet of surface finds within the shade radius and about 50-150 ft from flowing creek water. Is that what you observed as well? That the populations were high in numbers only in confinement of these special perfect conditions? No snake were found within the dry parts on the acre
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Jeff »

Also, Jeff, no, I have not read that paper! Is it available anywhere online? I am VERY interested in this.
Zach

The paper can be downloaded here... http://digitalcollections.usfca.edu/cdm ... 5129coll11

It's in the fall of 1966 issue.

Jeff
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Spring of that year is equally as interesting...imo ;)
(for obvious reasons :lol: )
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Jeff »

Spring of that year is equally as interesting...imo
Incorrect - "Jefferson Airplane Takes Off" was released in September.
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Porter,
The site at the west side of Wheatland was bordered on the north by railroad tracks, on the south by the highway to Marysville / Yuba City, on the west by a residence and on the east by a gravel road where we parked and two or three houses across the street. I likely have my field notes on that day in one of my folders but won’t take the time to search for that information.

I believe the entire field was grassland habitat with some type of introduce species of tree (locusts) along the south side and highway. The only oak trees were at the northwest corner behind a residence. I can’t recall if there was a sidewalk there or not. There was a considerable amount of ‘trash’ under which we found the snakes with most of the trash on the south side near the highway. I believe there may have been some shallow pot holes with water over along the railroad tracks. I recall we came across one or two Gopher Snakes as well and possibly a Racer.

It rained that day which was either in late April or early May and we got soaked. But we were too busy making searches to care. We went across the gravel road at the east end of the site and spoke to a woman that owned one of the houses. She allowed me to search under some of the landscaped rocks, wood ,etc. in her side yard where I found two or three Sharp-tails including one gravid female. One of those females was the largest live C. tenuis I have observed at over 16 inches.

We had first made searches in Marysville by some railroad tracks and came across 3 – 4 Sharp-tails before John took me to the site at Wheatland.

The site in Oregon is 16 – 17 northwest of Corvallis and the snakes occur between the shoulder of a gravel road and the farmer’s field and a Christmas tree plantation. The linear distance of the site is just a tad short of 1600 meters or one mile. I divided the site into sections A through E. On Oct. 25, 2001, I searched along about half of the site on the south side of the road and then searched the remaining half of site on Oct. 26th also only on the south side. In going though my files about two months ago, I ran across my field notes for those two days so that information is fresh in my memory.

At that time of my 4 year study, I was concentrating on trying to obtain recaptures so as to determine growth in the species. I no longer was taking specimens in to Dr. Robert Mason’s lab to have marked as I was going to end my study as of the end of Feb., 2002. In about April of 2002, the county and Christmas Tree plantation sprayed herbicide from the edge of the gravel shoulder down to the field. The Contia population took a very sharp decline.

I have since spoken to the manager of the Christmas Tree plantation and he has not spray herbicide now for a few years and it looks as if the Contia population is making a comeback.

Richard F. Hoyer
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Dr. Feldman mentioned to Zach that the photos represent vouchers as the snake is pretty shot. But I still suggest Zach contact CAS in San Francisco to see it they wish to have the specimen preserved.

Richard FH
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Ah, yes... but it is the individual mentioned within the spring context, from August 63, which has more intrresting significance. All depends on how far down the white rabbit hole one is willing to go. I for one, am more interested in contia holes at the current moment ;) ...and/or burrowing mammals beneath root systems
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Richard F. Hoyer wrote:Porter,
The site at the west side of Wheatland was bordered on the north by railroad tracks, on the south by the highway to Marysville / Yuba City, on the west by a residence and on the east by a gravel road where we parked and two or three houses across the street. I likely have my field notes on that day in one of my folders but won’t take the time to search for that information.

I believe the entire field was grassland habitat with some type of introduce species of tree (locusts) along the south side and highway. The only oak trees were at the northwest corner behind a residence. I can’t recall if there was a sidewalk there or not. There was a considerable amount of ‘trash’ under which we found the snakes with most of the trash on the south side near the highway. I believe there may have been some shallow pot holes with water over along the railroad tracks. I recall we came across one or two Gopher Snakes as well and possibly a Racer.

It rained that day which was either in late April or early May and we got soaked. But we were too busy making searches to care. We went across the gravel road at the east end of the site and spoke to a woman that owned one of the houses. She allowed me to search under some of the landscaped rocks, wood ,etc. in her side yard where I found two or three Sharp-tails including one gravid female. One of those females was the largest live C. tenuis I have observed at over 16 inches.

We had first made searches in Marysville by some railroad tracks and came across 3 – 4 Sharp-tails before John took me to the site at Wheatland.

The site in Oregon is 16 – 17 northwest of Corvallis and the snakes occur between the shoulder of a gravel road and the farmer’s field and a Christmas tree plantation. The linear distance of the site is just a tad short of 1600 meters or one mile. I divided the site into sections A through E. On Oct. 25, 2001, I searched along about half of the site on the south side of the road and then searched the remaining half of site on Oct. 26th also only on the south side. In going though my files about two months ago, I ran across my field notes for those two days so that information is fresh in my memory.

At that time of my 4 year study, I was concentrating on trying to obtain recaptures so as to determine growth in the species. I no longer was taking specimens in to Dr. Robert Mason’s lab to have marked as I was going to end my study as of the end of Feb., 2002. In about April of 2002, the county and Christmas Tree plantation sprayed herbicide from the edge of the gravel shoulder down to the field. The Contia population took a very sharp decline.

I have since spoken to the manager of the Christmas Tree plantation and he has not spray herbicide now for a few years and it looks as if the Contia population is making a comeback.

Richard F. Hoyer
Hmmm, I might kinda know where that is... I don't want to get too far into a different subject, but how far were the snakes from sidewalks or asphalt? I'm imagining a scenario a the snakes originally holding up at the trees and then extending further along the sidewalks and road, once paved, as years progressed(much like a foundation of a house replacing a den of boulders or root system. One thing I've noticed is that the roads seem to become a place where snakes can take refuge. Especially in agricultural areas (lots of rabbit and squirrel holes leading beneayh the road. Maybe becoming more preferred over natural environments
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Image20160308_013358-1 by California Reptile & Amphibian Appreciation, on Flickr

Welcome to the Hotel Contiaforya... I think you best bet is to figure out where that underground root system is (keep in mind, might not have a tree attached to it anymore. Gotta be oak or oak-like root layout) and look for the slugs. Also, you should be able to walk one on your runnimg trail in the evening once it warms up if all else fails. They lay straight line like a stick extending from the grass edge onto the cement

Cheers :beer: and good luck
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Porter,
One of the questions I have posed to myself and others (and remains a puzzle) is how do Sharp-tailed Snakes access their sub-surface environment?

The only rodent holes at the site 16 miles northwest of Corvallis along the gravel road are Calif. Ground Squirrels. Any Sharp-tail encountered by those squirrels is likely to be history. Squirrels and other rodents are natural antagonists of snakes and likely will dispatch small snakes that do not pose a threat.

I have wondered if they access underground via worm burrows or other small critters that produce 'tunnels or what. Following rotted out roots of vegetation, natural cracks in drying soil, or what ? Are they able to produce burrows on their own?

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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

I'm not much of a book reader nor am I at any level of studied herpetological stature. So, these thoughts come from a combination of observation, experience in the field, and creative thinking. One thing I noticed about that contia spot is that the ground became so soaked and saturated with water in the early months of the year that it actually seemed to separate, rise up off the lower grounds. I went walking out there after some heavy rains and could feel the ground collapsing beneath my feet. Not spreading out like mud around your footprint, but actually sinking straight down. This seem to happen near the areas where vein like water runoff were visible on the surface and a small layer of frozen ice was present. I'm not sure if it's the combination of different soils (mud, sand, and clay mixture at that sight) separating from each other or trapped gasses/bubbles pushing up by trapped air... seemed like the grassroots my have been floating, then sitting on a thin layer of ice with soil still mixed within the roots. So, then when that drys, a shelf-like layer is created. I think it could be a layer of grass rooted ground ceiling and a clay floor, with sand acting as a natural grout from sealant. So, once you have that layer. A worm hole leading down into there isn't to far of a travel in and out. A down within that layer, you have skinks, gaters, mice, creating larger tunnels which I imagine would run alongside or beneath a tree root. (there lizard noses are more equipped for digging and may be easier to follow as opposed to sharptail digging their own). So there is a never ending labyrinth of different sized tunnels... small ones leading into big ones depending on size and age of creatures. Although I do think wormholes are utilized by sharptail to reach the surface, i don't think they use the holes when traveling far distances. I'm guessing they must use the senses of their tongue flickers to determine what's at the other end of the hole.

I agree about the rodent burrows. However, I do think they lead to smaller side burrows. So, the snake just has to make it a certain distance before taking a detour into safety. I'm sure lizards are just as much a threat. In fact, when I was a kid I put a small blue-tailed skink (gilberts) in with an adult aligator lizard. The skink became a meal and I was heart broken :lol: Both elgaria and giberti are very common at that site. I'm sure baby shartail are just as tasty.

I should have made a more actuate diagram with skink holes. That's just a basic visual rough draft type of thing. What's your take on the rotted roots? That they sink when they rot and leave a space between the earth and rooted root as it shrivels? I remember seeing photos of a rock and strange object becoming embedded in trees as the trunk grew over and around it. Rocks under the earth are scatted about and fixated in one place. A root growing around these rocks (of different sizes) van be snatched up alot easier than a surface ground object. So, my guess is they become natural digging tool for some of these tunnels and create lots of underground empty pockets of space that these animals eventually reach in there burrowing activities and connect to the maze of tunnels. Pretty amazing :) Anyway, that's my take on it.

I think Zach should try to locate this root system because if the snakes are few and scarce... they may have never made a full transfer to artificial tunnels (ie the sidewake for joggers, if its paved for that matter, hard to figure out where they are if Im not there and never seen the place). If it's a place that is made with nice lawn grass and sprayed with pesticides that kill slugs and slenders... id check the outside perimeter of the Jogging park and look for protruding roots or sawed-off tree trunks that have been overgrown by berry bushes possibly or something else that could provide shade. that's where the cardboard should be laid out. perimeter of the jogging park and look for protruding roots or sought off tree trunks that have been overgrown Byberry bushes possibly or something else they could provide shade. That's where the cardboard should be laid out. You guys get a lot of moisture out there so I think the cardboard would work better for the sharp till. finding live slugs would not only prove to be a source of food but also and area where there are not pesticides killing them. Zach can apply his herping knwoledge. He knows what conditions to looks for as far as revolving shade radius and stuff, im sure.

Also, Richard. Thank you for taking the time of giving me the details on your site info! :beer: I didn't get to mention that before. I'm guessing that that site must have a look similar to the one I'm describing at one time aNd they adapted well to the man made tracks and road. Hard to say... may just come down to food availiblity and the right amount of moisture

Porter
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Porter,
It was about 1999 that I visited the site at Wheatland with John Stephenson. That being said, I would say most of the trash under which we found the Sharp-tails was within 10 – 30 feet from either the sidewalk if one was there or the curb along the highway. I do think there was a sidewalk but not certain.

As for how these small snakes are able to find their subsurface environments and then come back out to the surface is up for grabs to my way of thinking.

I have already document an instance in which a S. Alligator Lizard at hatchling size C. tenuis.

Richard F. Hoyer
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Porter »

Richard F. Hoyer wrote: As for how these small snakes are able to find their subsurface environments and then come back out to the surface is up for grabs to my way of thinking.
Explain ...what's your view on the subject?
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Porter,
As I alluded to, I haven't the foggiest idea how Sharp-tails find their way underground then find their way back to the surface. This is particularly true when the rains come and the soil likely expands during the fall then winter.

I understand your possible explanations. But the one site I mention along a gravel road, there are no trees for the mile distance that formed my study site on the south side of that gravel road. There is only grasses and forbs and no woody plants such as brush.

I have some indirect evidence that some of these snakes get trapped underground for varying lengths of time before they finally are able to gain access to the surface. I have similar information on the Rubber Boa.

Richard FH
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Brian Hubbs »

Richard...here's the records Jeff mentioned:

Occurrence: The Josephine Randall Museum has one specimen of this species reported from Mount Davidson. Wright and Wright ( 1957: 160) provide an illustration on plate-:1:9 which is listed from San Francisco. A specimen was obtained from an abandoned church at the corner of Ulloa and Rockaway Avenue on November 11, 1965.

So, I guess Zach's snake is not the first in SF co.
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Thanks Brian. It has been a number of years since I was in SF but I do recall seeing some habitat that looked as if it could potentially hold Contia.

RFH
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Zach_Lim »

Been trying hard to find one! I have been visiting the mentioned areas and surrounding areas. Will post update soon with habitat shots
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Re: Sharp-tailed Snake/Golden Gate Park/ATTN: HOYER

Post by Zach_Lim »

Thank you for all the tips, suggestions, and over all positive and productive words! It is reassuring to hear that many of you believe that the Sharp-tailed Snake should still be able to be found in SF.

I have been focusing around the areas where the historical record was found based on the paper presented by Jeff. I have also been focusing around the coastal/outer Sunset District of Golden Gate Park as habitat is less disturbed than other parts of the park.

In my searches, I have turned up quite a few herps. Nothing I haven't seen before in the City, but fun nonetheless.

CA Slender Salamander

Image

SF Alligator Lizard

Image

Pacific Ring-necked Snake (many of these)

Image

Image

Image

Sierra Tree Frog

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Yellow-eyed Ensatina

Image

Image

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Coast Range Fence Lizard

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Coast Garter Snake

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and this one is cheating, because not from 2016, but from December of 2015

CA Alligator Lizard

Image

I have been dedicating all my time after work on the weekdays (thank you daylight savings time or whatever it is haha) to herping in the City. Weekends are my "fun" days herping outside!

-Zach
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