Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

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Porter
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Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

As a photographer I reluctantly felt obligated to document this... no simple task. Entering a soft grounded graveyard of thousands of dead carp and flies with a smell repugnant and nearly unbearable is the last thing I want to do on time off from work. Still, I felt the magnitude of the experience had significance... I saw only two catfish in the mass of rotting carcasses. All bullfrog. Although this became a gracious environmentally forced banquette for the preditors in the area... I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on the availability of prey for next year :?

Sorry for the late upload... It was equally as difficult to edit through as it was to photograph





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Fieldnotes
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Fieldnotes »

Bye-bye-Bullfrogs, a bonus from California's drought. Native wildlife have adopted to withstand such occurrences. I can only imagine the stench and muddy-stickiness, must have been fun, nice pics too :thumb:
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

Is this truly a great loss...? In a habitat that now only is home to invasive bullfrog? What will replace the hunger of warm blooded predators? ...and if they were natives, how could they survive stuck in a stage of metamorphosis?

The stench was horrid... scratch that shat off the bucket list :? I was in and out pretty quick. I don't know how the people who left those quad tracks could even enjoy muddin out there. Fn gross... the younglings trying to cross over the mud-track-wall-barrier, searching for safety, unable to beathe in thick algae, resembled the opening scene to Saving Private Ryan. Trapped in a trench...

poor things :(
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Brian Hubbs »

If you want to be a bullfrog humanitarian, catch them all, put them in water, and drive them to east Texas where they belong. I'm sure the predators will find something else to eat. Hopefully that carnage will put a dent in the raccoon population too...

It's sad to see things die, but invasives need to go and mother nature seems to be doing a little toward that end with the drought. I'm really tired of seeing empty pond turtle shells along raccoon infested creeks too. Just saw 2 more the other day in Monterey county.
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

Yes... I can see with the drought lowering water levels, it must be easier to fish out a hiding or paddling turtle. I'm more worried about egrets and herons resorting to less tasty prey like turtles and snakes. Downtown Sacramento, near the river, is full of raccoon families, possum, and skunk. They'll find something to eat... even if it's human garbage :?

I'm sure those little frogpoles endured enough pain to welcome their own death... however, I suppose, everything does happen for a reason.
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Fieldnotes »

Before Chytrid Fungus and Bulldozers, drought was the greatest threat to amphibians. Ephemeral ponds often dry, killing thousands of metamorphosing Tiger Salamanders, Western Toads, Red-legged Frogs, and others. Over the eons those species have adapted to drought or paid the price. Bullfrogs monopolize ponds and now, Mother Nature is taking her tool. If birds die in the process, their numbers too were perversely overinflated or, frankly, they lost touch with California's natural ecology. :beer:
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by klawnskale »

Brian Hubbs wrote:If you want to be a bullfrog humanitarian, catch them all, put them in water, and drive them to east Texas where they belong. I'm sure the predators will find something else to eat. Hopefully that carnage will put a dent in the raccoon population too...

It's sad to see things die, but invasives need to go and mother nature seems to be doing a little toward that end with the drought. I'm really tired of seeing empty pond turtle shells along raccoon infested creeks too. Just saw 2 more the other day in Monterey county.

Agree with Hubbs. I worked in the Natomas Basin three years ago helping out on a T. gigas population surveys. My concerns are how this will affect the presence and numbers of western pond turtles and giant garter snakes. I used to release captured baby pond turtles from the minnow traps. They were especially abundant at that time in Natomas Farms. Now I fear they are gone. Raccoons are far worse at causing impacts on prey items such as turtles and snakes than herons and egrets. All those bullfrogs should rot. Cannot say I have any empathy for the introduced carp, catfish or green sunfish. Silversides (which gigas prefer as prey item and thread fin shad are of more concern to me as herp food (even though they too are introduced).
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

When I was a kid, I camped in Camptonville Ca and used to catch Newts in a deep river pool, crystal clear waters, with a goggle mask on. I remember seeing trout waiting and swimming into the current of the stream that fed into that pool. later in my teens, I remembered that and used to fish the bottom of streams feeding into pools which turned out to be successful. just letting my bait flow down the current into the pool from the top of that stream feed. later as I became rebellious, my friends and I would sneak onto golf courses at night and fish the ponds there. remembering what I had figured out about how the fish feed, while my friends waited on the opposite side of the pond for trolling night fish, I went straight to where the water fed into the pond from the creek outside the golf course. one day while cruising the Natomas basin farmlands, I came up upon a great blue heron standing at the waters edge in front of hey water drainage that fed into one of the canals. it flew off as I walked up, however as I was driving to the location, I could see he was there a long time before I got to him finally. then I noticed A small Gigas at the bottom of this little waterfall like drain off, eating the minnows that were feeding from the drain off. at first, I thought to myself, thank God I got there before the heron ate the snake. then later, after putting more thought into it. I realized that the Heron could have eaten the snake at any time and wanted, however he was doing what the snake was... Fishing. what feeds on baby minnows along with small snakes... Larger fish. So, because of past experience and that observation, I have the theory that garter snakes are similar as toads in they just don't taste good. not a first food choice. and considering a pond turtle doesn't have much meat, is hard to get the meat out of, and is mostly shell... It's hard for me to believe that its at the top of the list for raccoons and other predators. so, my question is... Have any studies been done on that kind of aspect? how do they study that?... By looking in the belly of those predators? what kind of weather and environmental conditions, habitat conditions, and availability are considered when finding a turtle shell in a belly or something such as a photograph taken of one being eaten? I agree that bullfrogs are a nuisance without a doubt. but if I come across one in the road while night cruising, I never kill it even if its a large one. I feel like something will come along that needs to eat it and if it doesn't it might resort to a less tasty meal. Hannah, any insight on the subject would be appreciated... And also, I have never seen pond turtles in the farmland canals. only red ear sliders. however where the photographs were taken of the bullfrogs in this post, I've seen numerous pond turtles from the road. silversides are very abundant there and the graveyard of rotting stench did have a lot of those as well. have any other sunfish been recorded in the farmland canals other than green sunfish?... And are those hybrids or true green sunfish? have Western toads been recorded in any of your finds there? I found my first Western toad in the Yolo side of that habitat. however not on the suTter side...

any info would be awesome
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by klawnskale »

Never found pond turtles in irrigation ditches in rice fields.These were found in an area not officially open to the public (although I did see local residents walking their dogs and jogging there) and are surrounded by gates and natural wetlands that were undergoing the process of restoration to benefit waterfowl, garter snakes and pond turtles. The cattails were being removed and thule (which gigas prefer) were being planted in their place. Now from what I see due to the drought, the few remaining gigas and marmorata in those wetlands may not have the fortitude to replenish their populations in that particular locality. Very sad :( :( If you want any information on stomach contents of indigenous snake predators your best resource on that would be to contact Brian Halstead at the Dixon field station. He would be aware of any studies on that.
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Brian Hubbs »

Hanna, I think most of the pond turtles are estivating until more water shows up. They can estivate for a long time. As for raccoons, I see too many empty shells in otherwise good streams to think the turtles died any other way. Plus, the little Coon tracks in the mud are a giveaway...

Image

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Missing head
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klawnskale
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by klawnskale »

[quote="Brian Hubbs"]Hanna, I think most of the pond turtles are estivating until more water shows up. They can estivate for a long time. As for raccoons, I see too many empty shells in otherwise good streams to think the turtles died any other way. Plus, the little Coon tracks in the mud are a giveaway...

Yes; not unusual for our native testudines to aestivate under such conditions; even desert tortoises will aestivate for up to two years without available water BTW; contrary to popular belief the desert tortoise from an evolutionary standpoint is not a true desert species. It was present inhabiting the Earth before the Mojave Desert Region was a desert. It was present when the ecosystem was temperate. So it goes without saying a two year aestivation is probably not unusual for these animals to handle. But a drought lasting longer than that could have repercussions to some extent on the population's ability to
completely rebound. It was evident amongst the desert tortoises at the DTRNA. After the 3rd consecutive year of drought, I found way too many mortalities. Some of them of individuals that were still alive the previous year. These animals will not breed if environmental conditions are not favorable. I would be curious about the mortality rate of neonate ponds under these stressful conditions. I am sure it is higher with being more visible to predators and the young turtles not having the body mass reserves like the adults to withstand longer periods without food and water.
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

klawnskale wrote:Never found pond turtles in irrigation ditches in rice fields.These were found in an area not officially open to the public (although I did see local residents walking their dogs and jogging there) and are surrounded by gates and natural wetlands that were undergoing the process of restoration to benefit waterfowl, garter snakes and pond turtles. The cattails were being removed and thule (which gigas prefer) were being planted in their place. Now from what I see due to the drought, the few remaining gigas and marmorata in those wetlands may not have the fortitude to replenish their populations in that particular locality. Very sad :( :( If you want any information on stomach contents of indigenous snake predators your best resource on that would be to contact Brian Halstead at the Dixon field station. He would be aware of any studies on that.
Thank you for the info! Do you have an email for Halstead by any chance?
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

Brian Hubbs wrote:Hanna, I think most of the pond turtles are estivating until more water shows up. They can estivate for a long time. As for raccoons, I see too many empty shells in otherwise good streams to think the turtles died any other way. Plus, the little Coon tracks in the mud are a giveaway...

Image

Image
Missing head
What are the bullfrogs populations like in these areas where the shells were found? Any Native frogs there? Were they all adult turtle shell sizes or young too? What kind of habitat...rocky trickling mountain/foothill stream or large body of still water marshlands?
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by klawnskale »

Thank you for the info! Do you have an email for Halstead by any chance?[/quote]

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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Brian Hubbs »

Porter wrote:
Brian Hubbs wrote:Hanna, I think most of the pond turtles are estivating until more water shows up. They can estivate for a long time. As for raccoons, I see too many empty shells in otherwise good streams to think the turtles died any other way. Plus, the little Coon tracks in the mud are a giveaway...

Image

Image
Missing head
What are the bullfrogs populations like in these areas where the shells were found? Any Native frogs there? Were they all adult turtle shell sizes or young too? What kind of habitat...rocky trickling mountain/foothill stream or large body of still water marshlands?
Well, the top photo is a 3 incher, and bottom is a 4 incher. That was a rocky So Cal mtn stream reduced to pools, but the shells I saw last week were in a gulley type stream that flowed thru some sandstone in central CA. The shells were in grass between pools, and the coon tracks were 4 feet away. There are only native frogs at each of those locations. Here's the gulley stream from 3 years ago in July...This stream is pristine, except for the raccoons, so I don't see the turtles disappearing from there very soon. It has a huge population. Once it fills again the turtles will breed and replenish their numbers and be safer from the coons. I saw 4 basking turtles in a two-minute walk last week, along with the 2 empty shells. Normally all the turtles would be out of the stream by now, but this is a drought...so some are still hanging around.

Image

I don't see dead turtles at large ponds, unless they are completely dry.

Here's another pristine creek in the same county from Apr 2013. This one is also loaded with all sizes of turtles. I have not seen red-legged frogs at either place, but I've seen yellow-leggeds at the former stream. I never go down to the water at this creek. There is no need. I can see the turtles from the hillside.

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Here's 9 of them:

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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Porter »

Before I respond, I just want to say first.. nice work (turtle surveying) :thumb: Hat's off :beer:

In comparison towards availability as prey... At the place that holds the Yellow-legged Frogs, which is in higher numbers? frogs or turtles?
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Re: Notomas Basin ‎August‎ ‎30‎, ‎2015

Post by Brian Hubbs »

When I saw the frogs 3 years ago they were in only one section of the creek and there was a lot of them. I have not seen them in other sections, but that might be timing. Right now the turtles outnumber the frogs by a lot...at least by my observations.

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