Need an ID and also your reasoning

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blacktara
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Joined: August 16th, 2013, 2:43 pm
Location: SW Oklahoma

Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by blacktara »

Ok so I have a dilemma. This snake is from Kern County. Local herpers at the site say it is oreganus helleri. Range maps I have seen say it is oreganus oreganus - and the locale is well north of the intergrade zone that runs west from the point of the Antelope Valley. I have shown pics of this snake to a few different folks (albeit noene of them Calif experts) and have received conflicting opinions -for example one says it looks like oreganus because the blotches are too round for helleri, the other says helleri because the blotches are too pointy to be oreganus. Help. What is this snake, and why?

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Kent VanSooy
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Location: Oceanside

Re: Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by Kent VanSooy »

If it's comfortably within the range of oreganus, there's your answer. SoPacs have tons of variation in the pattern and color, and I bet NorPacs do as well.

hellihooks
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Re: Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by hellihooks »

Easy call... in helleri, the terminal black band (to the rattle) is twice the width of all the other tail bands, and in oreganus the bands are equal in size all the way down to the rattle. in this snake the final tail band is broken... but NOT twice the width of the rest of the tail bands... so oreganus... :thumb: jim

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Owen
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Re: Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by Owen »

Just to add a third... C. o. oreganus. Very similar to the one I saw crossing the road in Fresno Co. in March. Blocky blotches toward the front, getting more diamond shaped mid body with banding for the last 25-30%:

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Also, Eastern SLO ones have very diamond shaped blotches... at least the ones that I've seen.

hellihooks
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Re: Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by hellihooks »

For the record... western kern and eastern SLO have some of the most unusual-looking oreganus there are... for instance... carizzo's... :shock: Taft's are daft... and no coping with maricopas... lol

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blacktara
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Location: SW Oklahoma

Re: Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by blacktara »

Thanks all for the input. Hoping the thoughts and feedback keep coming

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Fieldnotes
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Re: Need an ID and also your reasoning

Post by Fieldnotes »

...what Kent said.

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