Herp heroes

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Hadar
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Herp heroes

Post by Hadar »

I don't know how familiar you guys are with America's Wetland Foundation, but their new campaign to reach more youth has estuarine superheroes. To my surprise, two of the superheroes are herps. There is Reed The Reptile (an alligator) and Mossy The Water Moccasin.

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Although they could be named better and Mossy looks like no Agkistrodon piscivorus I've ever seen, I think it is a great step in the right direction. If you are interested I have included the character bios and links for your enjoyment.


Mossy
Mossy is mysterious, intelligent and somewhat shy. Though she's not always the first to explain her opinion or volunteer for a game, she's very perceptive. Named after the moss commonly found in the swamp, beneath which she often hides, she is definitely the old sage of the group.

***

I am Mossy the water moccasin. Maybe you've seen something called Spanish moss? It hangs from trees all over America's WETLAND. Moss is very common here in Louisiana and so are water moccasins like me. I hide in a variety of places. You might find me under a log or swimming in a bayou or lake. The scenery is beautiful where I live. Why don't you come and visit me sometime?

http://www.americaswetland.com/custompa ... pageid=192


Reed

Reed is well liked by all for his good nature and strength of character. He is quick with a joke and always up for some fun. He is athletic and always enjoys a swim race with any of his friends. Though he's pretty tough, he has a very even temper, and his friends all trust him to be measured and relaxed (and, with teeth like that, it's a good thing, too!). His name comes from the reeds found in the wetlands, his home.

***

Hey, buddy. I'm Reed the reptile. Not many years ago, my kind was almost wiped out, but humans realized how important alligators are and helped us survive! Now, it's my turn to help humans get rid of pesky nutria, a species that destroys the wetlands. They are my favorite snack. Have you ever tasted nutria? Speaking of food, I probably wouldn't try to catch and eat you for lunch, but it would be best for you to say "hello" from a distance if you ever see me in the wetlands.

Quiz time!

Q: Did you know that, in addition to protecting animals, the wetlands protect humans, too? How do you think they do that?

A: The wetlands are Louisiana's first line of defense against hurricanes. Since they're right next to the water, they can block dangerous waves before they reach populated areas. Cool, huh?

http://www.americaswetland.com/custompa ... pageid=187


Anyone else know of additional herp heroes?

Cheers, Heather
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

Its nice they have herps but I wish the mixed messages wernt there, as far as mixing real things, like the moss species, and the nutria, with the animals volunteering for games, and liking to swim race with friends.

I don't think its necessary at all to interest kids in herps or any animals, which make up all the other denizens of this world, by presenting them with human qualities. And I think it is possible that children will easily believe those things. Even some adults may easily believe reptiles race each other for fun.

I don't think children need anything but the fantastic truths about animals in order to care about them. Its so possible to write those truths in a fun and exciting way.

I don't mean to criticize but I think the writer could have done it differently and that he perhaps slightly underestimated his target audience.

I hope my comments are taken in the spirit intended. Its an important campaign.

And no I don't have kids, but I was one.
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Hadar
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Hadar »

Kelly Mc wrote:Its nice they have herps but I wish the mixed messages wernt there, as far as mixing real things, like the moss species, and the nutria, with the animals volunteering for games, and liking to swim race with friends.

I don't think its necessary at all to interest kids in herps or any animals, which make up all the other denizens of this world, by presenting them with human qualities. And I think it is possible that children will easily believe those things. Even some adults may easily believe reptiles race each other for fun.

I don't think children need anything but the fantastic truths about animals in order to care about them. Its so possible to write those truths in a fun and exciting way.

I don't mean to criticize but I think the writer could have done it differently and that he perhaps slightly underestimated his target audience.

I hope my comments are taken in the spirit intended. Its an important campaign.

And no I don't have kids, but I was one.
I agree that the campaign has lots of mixed messages. I don't think they hired a herpetologist to write the blurbs nor to draw the characters. Sometimes we underestimate children and their abilities. I've noticed that adults spend an incredible amount of time teaching kids lessons and mortals that they already have when the bigger issue is the adults who have lost this.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

My ex roommate has a toddler who is typical in all observable ways, who knows how to say Nematode - and knows what it is, same as she knows what a dog is, or a bee. Because her Daddy told her about them. Another friend has a kid that is similar. I think its important to look at old patterns of what is promoted to kids and adults, about the other inhabitants of the world. The deficit of awareness about other living creatures in the developed world hasn't been helped by its imagery of them, at all. So if the opportunity presents itself to change it even if its a small chip in a cartoon mountain, seize it. Especially any entity dedicated to preserving it or helping in any way.
MCHerper
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

I certainly respect them for their work in educating children!

Regarding the superheroes, it's a cool idea, but Kelly took the words out of my mouth with what he said. While the concept is great, and the spirit of conservation should be fostered, assigning anthropomorphic qualities to the animals may endear them to children while they are young, but will very likely wear off later when people mature and begin to look beyond what appealed to them as kids.

On a personal note, I am questioning whether water moccasins and alligators are the best gateway reptiles for education. Although the element of danger helps to cultivate a fascination, I think that the natural and cultural revulsion that most people have for snakes and crocodilians is harder to overcome when there is real danger present. For one example in contrast, (as folks on here know) many harmless constrictors provide a tremendous economic and ecological benefit to humans by keeping rodent populations down. This in turn reduces chances for human diseases such as Lyme. I find that this is a great fact for people that quickly softens them toward those 5 and 6 foot long "black snakes" that scare the hell out of people at parks.

For kids, a 5 or 6 foot long snake hanging out in a bush is cool enough as it is, no need for a cape!

IMO, once people (through education) can overcome their fear and hesitation of snakes and reptiles in general, then introduce the benefits and cool natural history of potentially dangerous ones like cottonmouths and alligators.

Also, as you noted Hadar, I think that the best way to promote conservation of reptiles is not to direct their appeal to only kids, but to kids and adults alike.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

Cool positive points MCherper, and something you wrote up there (my laptop is acting funny and wont let me scroll right or I would quote) reminded me of an example here at FHF of blending Natural History with warmth and humor and rhyme, and that's Hellihook's poetry.

Rhyme makes facts deeply memorable and repeatable, a classic way and all of us can think of many examples in our own mental repertoire where it holds fast.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

Kelly Mc wrote:Rhyme makes facts deeply memorable and repeatable, a classic way and all of us can think of many examples in our own mental repertoire where it holds fast.
I agree wholeheartedly. Rhyme is tremendously powerful for learning, so much that I still remember some rhymes (and their English translations) that I learned in a foreign language 20 years ago when I was first learning that language.

On a related note, there is a Dr. Seuss book called Miles and Miles of Reptiles that has some great natural history rhymes for herps. Highly recommended for budding naturalists!
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by chris_mcmartin »

MCHerper wrote: On a related note, there is a Dr. Seuss book called Miles and Miles of Reptiles that has some great natural history rhymes for herps. Highly recommended for budding naturalists!
Nitpick: the book is authored by Tish Rabe, but published under the "Cat in the Hat Learning Library" series or somesuch. It came out about 6 years ago, well after Dr. Seuss passed away (1991). Nevertheless, you have piqued my interest in this book! :thumb:
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The Real Snake Man
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by The Real Snake Man »

The real herp heroes are Ditmars, Klauber, Kauffeld, Carr, Wright and Wright, Ernst and Ernst, Conant, Stebbins, Smith, the list goes on and on. Not really related, but that's what I thought this would be about when I saw the title.

-Gene
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

The Real Snake Man wrote:The real herp heroes are Ditmars, Klauber, Kauffeld, Carr, Wright and Wright, Ernst and Ernst, Conant, Stebbins, Smith, the list goes on and on. Not really related, but that's what I thought this would be about when I saw the title.

-Gene
I like you, true blue Real.

Hey you know I was thinking too, that another way to go would be to make the kids the heroes, the Wetland Warriors.

Kids respond well to empowerment and advocacy, sticking up for what's good and beautiful. Their little hearts are strong and simply shaped that way.
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Noah M
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Noah M »

I agree with several of the criticisms already given, but I think it is important to support things like this when I consider the the alternative teaching children receive about nature and herps.

One idea I had for NAFHA (or FHF, or both) was to develop lesson plans to freely distribute to K-12 biology classes. I think this super hero approach might be a good way to do it for the younger grades - though perhaps instead of a superhero have a spokes-herp that could guide students in their discovery of the natural world. I don't know anything about middle and elementary school lesson plans, nor am I in a position to draw up a spokes-herp. But I do know there a few school teachers and educators who read this forum and I am sure somebody in here has some artistic talent - I saw the herp art thread :)

I'm not saying we copy the American Wetland Foundation, but certainly there are things we could do on our own to help support herp education.
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

I agree with captainjack. We should do everything we can to support education. I think alot of the criticisms of the heros are valid but are trivial when viewed against the big picture of environmental education.
Kelly Mc wrote:Kids respond well to empowerment and advocacy, sticking up for what's good and beautiful. Their little hearts are strong and simply shaped that way.
I also agree with Kelly here. Younger kids are so enthusiastic and passionate about science and learning. Somewhere along the way they lose this. I don't really understand what happens but I don't want to contribute to that loss of wonder.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

Kelly Mc wrote:Hey you know I was thinking too, that another way to go would be to make the kids the heroes, the Wetland Warriors.

Kids respond well to empowerment and advocacy, sticking up for what's good and beautiful. Their little hearts are strong and simply shaped that way.
That is absolutely true, but I believe that there is an element there that could potentially backfire. I think that the teaching about the cool facts and natural history should stick completely to facts. I would hesitate to attempt to fire kids up about any type of agenda, because if the parents don't buy 100% into that agenda, they won't necessarily appreciate it, and you'll lose students quickly. For example, if my kids came home fired up about a social issue and it was because they had learned about it themselves, researched it, thought critically about it, and decided that action was necessary, then I would respect it. However, if they came home pissed off for someone else's cause, I might tend to look unfavorably on it, even if I agreed with the cause. I think that 'little environmental warriors' would smack of environmental extremism, even if it wasn't meant to be.

Just my $0.02
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

captainjack0000 wrote:I agree with several of the criticisms already given, but I think it is important to support things like this when I consider the the alternative teaching children receive about nature and herps.

One idea I had for NAFHA (or FHF, or both) was to develop lesson plans to freely distribute to K-12 biology classes. I think this super hero approach might be a good way to do it for the younger grades - though perhaps instead of a superhero have a spokes-herp that could guide students in their discovery of the natural world. I don't know anything about middle and elementary school lesson plans, nor am I in a position to draw up a spokes-herp. But I do know there a few school teachers and educators who read this forum and I am sure somebody in here has some artistic talent - I saw the herp art thread :)

I'm not saying we copy the American Wetland Foundation, but certainly there are things we could do on our own to help support herp education.
In my experience, as a father, teacher, and locally known "snake guy", my opinion is that the best way to teach about herps is to get involved on a local level through a parks system, local nature preserve, etc. I say that because trying to get a lesson plan into a K-12 curriculum is going to be tough, as the standards for biology may not have the wiggle room, and teachers often have to cut corners to "cover" all of the material to meet the requirements for standardized tests. It sucks, and I'm sure that people are thinking "why can't they just dedicate a few days to it?" but a single lab from a single lesson in a single unit for a single core standard can take two days.

That being said, as a science teacher (teaching an interdisciplinary chemistry course with some ecology in the curriculum), I do teach about herps, their role in an ecosystem, some of the natural threats that they face (disease, predation), as well as chemical anthropogenic threats (acid deposition, estrogen mimicking pesticides, endocrine disruptors, etc). We do a reptile and amphibian conservation project during our unit on water and its conservation, and it's great because I get to watch high school students go from revulsion or indifference, to concern, and ultimately the students tend to want to know more about them, or at very least they understand the roles that herps play in a balanced ecosystem, and they are now aware of their benefit to the ecosystem and to us.
Bryan Hamilton wrote:. I also agree with Kelly here. Younger kids are so enthusiastic and passionate about science and learning. Somewhere along the way they lose this. I don't really understand what happens but I don't want to contribute to that loss of wonder.
Consider a scenario where you are educating 20 young boys (ages 5-8).

Take 10 of them, take them to the park every day. Completely unstructured. They can swing from a rope and climb trees, they can wrestle on the lawn, they can take nets and bug boxes into the meadow, they can go in the streams and catch crayfish and frogs, they can have binoculars to see birds. They are given measuring tape, writing utensils, and a notebook. Have them build shelters. Have them use compasses. Have them measure, count, calculate. They are encouraged, both individually and as teams, to make observations, ask questions, make predictions, think critically, and everything is completely hands-on.

Simultaneously, take the other 10 kids. Put them in a room with windows, artificial lighting, artificial environmental control. From 8 am to 8:30 am, they learn math, then from 8:30 to 8:35, they are allowed to go to the bathroom or drink water. Then from 8:35 to 9:05, they learn how to write, 9:05 to 9:10, water. From 9:10 to 9:40, they look at a preserved crayfish and are given a book with drawings, and they must take the crayfish apart and label the parts as per the book. 9:40 to 9:45, water and bathroom. 9:45 to 10:15, they learn about someone doing something a long time ago in a land far...far... and they are yelled at by the teacher because they are not paying attention.

The first model is far and away better than the second. The biggest problem with the first model is that we don't have the resources, the space, the funds, etc. to educate kids that way. The second problem with the first model is that not everything can be unstructured. There is a time, place, and most of all a necessity to learn history, to sit and read, learn, etc. about the intangibles and abstract concepts of science that sometimes bore us. However, the first model is a great foundation and something that should be visited from time to time. I think it's critical that kids get outdoors and apply the sciences to the stuff that they can hold in their hands, hear, see, smell, and make multisensory observations of. I have very little control over it as a teacher, but as a parent, it's what I aim for when and where possible. One of the reasons why I love sharing herping with the kids, they ask lots and lots of questions.

:thumb:
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

Its sad to consider that there would be parents that could think that their child coming home with the drawings that they made of a frog, or the little scientific notepad they carried in the field that day with a big spirit of protectiveness for the natural world - the real world, could see it as extremism.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Kelly Mc wrote:Its sad to consider that there would be parents that could think that their child coming home with the drawings that they made of a frog, or the little scientific notepad they carried in the field that day with a big spirit of protectiveness for the natural world - the real world, could see it as extremism.

I don't think that's what MCHerper meant; probably more like these pamphlets which have been given out at schools:

Image
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

Yeah, peta is strange. Its like they are alienating on purpose in some counter agenda. Eerie.

I think the term Wetland Warriors is harmless though. There's a basketball team called the warriors. There are video games and movies full of outer space warriors.

I don't think its that big of a deal.

Humans are growing up compulsively hobbled to devices and technological artifice. Creepy.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Noah M »

MCHerper

Your two teaching scenarios are scary. I grew up in a setting where the school did occasionally offer scenario 1 to the students. Our school corporation has their own woods and we would take field trips to the woods. We had flat pans, dipnets, and a curator who could answer most of our questions. They even had a bird rehabilitation area where you could see up close raptors like owls and a bald eagle - quite the think for north central indiana in the early 90s. It was awesome. It was transformative.

I guess my thought was that may be a teacher somewhere out there who wants to do a bit of scenario one and doesn't know how. Even if they don't have the resources, we could then offer a guide for them. Everybody doesn't need a woods and binoculars. There has to be a way to help make scenario #1 happen. Even if it is just around the playground. My mother-in-law works with 3rd graders, and Chicago garter snakes and nesting killdeer have shown up on the playground before. Even having a page long document (a position paper if you will) to circulate talking about the importance of teaching appreciation and wonderment about the natural world might be useful.

I guess I just feel like we as a group could be doing more. I just don't know what.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by klawnskale »

Kelly: This topic is very relevant to me due to some recent training I received while working as a Spring Naturalist in Georgia. I was fortunate to receive certification in a nationally recognized educational program whose curriculum is based on actual science to instruct children ages K-12 on ecology, conservation and zoology. It is called Project WILD. You can check out their resources at http://www.projectwild.org It keeps children engaged and interested in these topics by utilizing activities in a problem solving game format. Many of the activities take the kids outdoors and encourages them to explore ecosystems and find answers to questions (which would actually be hypotheses). It is a curriculum recognized and used by STEM school programs in many states; California Fish and Wildlife utilizes Project WILD programs to educate children during special outreach programs. So, all is not totally lost when it comes to the availability of resources that are out there to teach children the facts and realities of the natural world.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

klawnskale wrote:Kelly: This topic is very relevant to me due to some recent training I received while working as a Spring Naturalist in Georgia. I was fortunate to receive certification in a nationally recognized educational program whose curriculum is based on actual science to instruct children ages K-12 on ecology, conservation and zoology. It is called Project WILD. You can check out their resources at http://www.projectwild.org It keeps children engaged and interested in these topics by utilizing activities in a problem solving game format. Many of the activities take the kids outdoors and encourages them to explore ecosystems and find answers to questions (which would actually be hypotheses). It is a curriculum recognized and used by STEM school programs in many states; California Fish and Wildlife utilizes Project WILD programs to educate children during special outreach programs. So, all is not totally lost when it comes to the availability of resources that are out there to teach children the facts and realities of the natural world.

Project Wild rocks! Thanks for such good news, excellent example of program!
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Hadar
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Hadar »

I agree with MCHerper that the schools are limited in what they can teach due to the need for schools to have high standard testing scores in order to receive funding. I also agree with captainjack0000 that we should do more as an organization. The Project WILD that klawnskale mentioned looks like a great program and there are a ton of awesome programs out there, the bigger issue is connecting children (and adults) to these programs.

Although I am a researcher professionally now, I was a wildlife educator (Michigan United Conservation Clubs) before and still spend a large portion of my "free time" volunteering with children (K-12th and some college). There are many ways to do this. I have presented at the Teen Summit Conference, held outreach programs with the wildlife medical clinic I worked with so kids could see wild animals up close that are too injured to be released while learning about the animals, been an educator and camp counselor at conservation summer camps and "discovery days", and mentor with FabFems which connects girls interested in STEM fields to women in those fields. You can volunteer at science fairs (those are a lot of fun). Right now I am a leader for a 4-H STEM group and the kids are amazing. When we went herping, all the kids loved the tadpoles, salamanders, snakes, insects, anything and everything we found. Two of the parents were terrified and stood a good 10 meters away but gave thumbs up whenever their kids turned around yelling "mom/dad I touched a snake". These parents want to support their kids' interests but have trouble getting over their own fears or don't know enough to educate their kids so they need others (us?) to help them. One of the little projects I'm involved in now is the “Don’t Let It Loose” High School Media Design Contest with Oregon Sea Grant and Oregon Invasive Species Council. This contest is intended to provide communication materials tailored towards youth, teachers, and pet owners to help increase the awareness of and prevent problems associated with releasing potentially invasive animals and plants into Oregon’s environment. It is a great way to get kids thinking about issues and rewarding them for their ideas.

Going back to what MCHerper said about the two different educating types. Here in Oregon, we have a school that was founded in 1983 by families interested in an alternative education for their children. It is a parent-run school located in the rural coastal community on the North Oregon Coast in the middle of a beautiful forest. The children go on nature hikes through old growth forests and to the beach on their lunch and play breaks. Each class is limited in size to ten students to ensure individual attention and classes are mixed in age because the parents believe that it enhances a sense of community. The focus of the school is on children's experience, discovery, challenge, experimentation, risk, failure and mastery rather than grades and testing. Although the families and the students love the school, since it only goes from K-5th grade, I question how well the students will transition to middle school and high school with standard curriculum.

I feel that I have a personal responsibility to educated and engage children (and adults) about natural resources, science, and nature in general. I send a lot of the kids I work with to the FHF to hopefully find people in their area to continue working with them (taking them outside, talking to them about herps, and helping them safely find animals to admire) since many of the kids don't live near me. By near me, I mean they live across the country or overseas (partially because I keep moving). Unfortunately, I haven't heard of any of the students finding someone in their area that would reach out to them. It would be nice if we had some kind of list of herpers that wouldn't mind talking to schools for special events or mentor/be a buddy for young herpers and have this list divided by location so it would be easy to match people up.

Cheers, Heather
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by klawnskale »

[quote="Hadar"]I agree with MCHerper that the schools are limited in what they can teach due to the need for schools to have high standard testing scores in order to receive funding. I also agree with captainjack0000 that we should do more as an organization. The Project WILD that klawnskale mentioned looks like a great program and there are a ton of awesome programs out there, the bigger issue is connecting children (and adults) to these programs.

Hadar: This can be easily resolved through the resources available on the ProjectWILD website. It has links to and a list of regional program supervisors that will give you the assistance and the materials necessary to incorporate the program into an educational curriculum. Educators (such as yourself) interested from any school can gain access to these resources. They can receive instruction from trained facilitators (such as myself) on the ProjectWILD teaching system and when they sign up for the course (it usually is a two day training period and the fees are really affordable; some teachers may even be able to get their schools to cover the costs) they will be given hundreds of dollars worth of teaching materials (books, activities…) GRATIS. So, where there is a will there is a way. Connection can be accomplished if the schools and educators are motivated to utilize the resources.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

From sharing botanically correct ways to enrich a cristatellas biome, to posting cool wildlife and herp related job opportunities, to many other instances of awesome, astute information and connection, Hanna you always offer real help.

Project Wild is a go to model for sure.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

Kelly Mc wrote:Its sad to consider that there would be parents that could think that their child coming home with the drawings that they made of a frog, or the little scientific notepad they carried in the field that day with a big spirit of protectiveness for the natural world - the real world, could see it as extremism.
Kelly, no sane and rational parent should even bat an eyelash at things like drawings of a frog or scientific journaling. I was referring to something more along the lines of what Chris M shared, although not necessarily the literature, but the attitude that may go along with it. There are people with agendas out there, and they aren't the least bit shy about targeting children. I guess that, in a nutshell, my original thoughts would be best summarized by saying that we should seek to educate, but never indoctrinate.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

Oh I know MCherper!

I guess my thoughts reflect an inner dismay at the value profile of human culture as a whole.

Personally I think there are too many people and that there is a ridiculous taboo to suggest or teach that humans shouldn't reproduce so freely. That includes the educated and privileged. Actually especially that demographic.
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Hadar
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Hadar »

The Project WILD that klawnskale mentioned looks like a great program and there are a ton of awesome programs out there, the bigger issue is connecting children (and adults) to these programs.

Hadar: This can be easily resolved through the resources available on the ProjectWILD website. It has links to and a list of regional program supervisors that will give you the assistance and the materials necessary to incorporate the program into an educational curriculum. Educators (such as yourself) interested from any school can gain access to these resources. They can receive instruction from trained facilitators (such as myself) on the ProjectWILD teaching system and when they sign up for the course (it usually is a two day training period and the fees are really affordable; some teachers may even be able to get their schools to cover the costs) they will be given hundreds of dollars worth of teaching materials (books, activities…) GRATIS. So, where there is a will there is a way. Connection can be accomplished if the schools and educators are motivated to utilize the resources.
Project WILD has great resources but that doesn't solve the problem of connecting people. It works if educators know about Project WILD and recruit students but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm referring more to the students that aren't being reached and the ones that are but then lose people working with them. I don't work with any particular school, I volunteer through nation wide organizations so when I move every two years I can find students to work with easily and not have to start from scratch each time. I'm more concerned about the students I've mentored for 1-2 years and then when I leave I try to match them up with other mentors and can't find anyone interested. I thought if herpers on the forum were interested in something like that it would be easier to find mentors by region if there was some kind of list.

Mostly I'm concerned about the risk youth I've worked with. These kids get into a lot of trouble because they aren't getting enough attention at home or there are issues at home that they don't know how to handle so they act out. Spending a couple hours a week with these kids and getting them out in nature where they can see how large the world is helps them temporarily escape these issues and gives them strength. Other volunteers I have worked with don't like "dealing" with these kids and kick them out of the program or camp within the first day or two. I've found some of the worst trouble makers are the smartest kids but they get bored and need to be challenged more.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

Every few months I hang out with a group of young adults who have varied challenges, down's, moderate to severe autism etc.

One young man in particular named Eric is my favorite friend among them but he is more interested in my teeth than animals. Every time he sees me from our very first meeting he checks out my teeth - tapping the front ones and incisors percussively, turning my jaw this way, then that way to see my broken molars.

His fingertips have the fine assertiveness of a natural born physician.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

As for mentors, and outreach FHF is chock full of people who do it, some every day. Others on a regularly scheduled basis and have for years. Its an integrated part of life that perhaps goes unheralded by self promotion - its just the way they walk the walk.

There will be posts or threads here that may mention an activity or request for feedback but mostly people here diligently engage with kids and adults wherever they live, breath, work and herp.

Its part of who we are.
MCHerper
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

Hadar wrote:
The Project WILD that klawnskale mentioned looks like a great program and there are a ton of awesome programs out there, the bigger issue is connecting children (and adults) to these programs.

Hadar: This can be easily resolved through the resources available on the ProjectWILD website. It has links to and a list of regional program supervisors that will give you the assistance and the materials necessary to incorporate the program into an educational curriculum. Educators (such as yourself) interested from any school can gain access to these resources. They can receive instruction from trained facilitators (such as myself) on the ProjectWILD teaching system and when they sign up for the course (it usually is a two day training period and the fees are really affordable; some teachers may even be able to get their schools to cover the costs) they will be given hundreds of dollars worth of teaching materials (books, activities…) GRATIS. So, where there is a will there is a way. Connection can be accomplished if the schools and educators are motivated to utilize the resources.
Project WILD has great resources but that doesn't solve the problem of connecting people. It works if educators know about Project WILD and recruit students but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm referring more to the students that aren't being reached and the ones that are but then lose people working with them. I don't work with any particular school, I volunteer through nation wide organizations so when I move every two years I can find students to work with easily and not have to start from scratch each time. I'm more concerned about the students I've mentored for 1-2 years and then when I leave I try to match them up with other mentors and can't find anyone interested. I thought if herpers on the forum were interested in something like that it would be easier to find mentors by region if there was some kind of list.

Mostly I'm concerned about the risk youth I've worked with. These kids get into a lot of trouble because they aren't getting enough attention at home or there are issues at home that they don't know how to handle so they act out. Spending a couple hours a week with these kids and getting them out in nature where they can see how large the world is helps them temporarily escape these issues and gives them strength. Other volunteers I have worked with don't like "dealing" with these kids and kick them out of the program or camp within the first day or two. I've found some of the worst trouble makers are the smartest kids but they get bored and need to be challenged more.
Agree, agree and agree some more. Good points!
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

It doesnt make sense to me that on one hand there would be concerns about parents getting upset that their kids are "being targeted by extremist agendas" yet on the other hand think they would, in this day and age of increased child safety awareness - allow their child to have an adult mentor, alone, just because said adult put their name on some kind of list to do so. It doesn't matter WHAT group or organization - sports, church, special interest, etc, no parent I know would allow that - as it ISNT safe.

Truly hell would freeze over before my nieces or friends children would be alone with an adult and if that isn't the case I hope somebody else has the sense to step in and realize there actually are more important issues as hand with this than the subject of herps and nature - pretty much not much else is but yeah - this one is.
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klawnskale
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by klawnskale »

I am going to be pragmatic here. There is just so much that can be done to try and educate each and every child out there. It's a big world out there with a lot of school age children. There are many underserved communities across the planet that do not have the access to resources to enrich their childrens' lives in the idealistic way we would all hope they would have privilege to. So, as an educator/mentor, you make the best out of the situation at hand within the reality you are working in. Even if it meant you guided an individual child for two months at a camp. That will still leave a lasting impression. I no longer view the world with the youthful idealism that I can convince the entire human population that I can make a difference.
So, I find contentment in knowing that perhaps I have made some kind of positive impact on the kids I was able to reach out to and perhaps down the pike, this will lead to more good for future generations. At least, this is a more attainable goal than worrying about being able to reach out to every troubled youth that's out there. ;)
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

Kelly Mc wrote:It doesnt make sense to me that on one hand there would be concerns about parents getting upset that their kids are "being targeted by extremist agendas" yet on the other hand think they would, in this day and age of increased child safety awareness - allow their child to have an adult mentor, alone, just because said adult put their name on some kind of list to do so. It doesn't matter WHAT group or organization - sports, church, special interest, etc, no parent I know would allow that - as it ISNT safe.

Truly hell would freeze over before my nieces or friends children would be alone with an adult and if that isn't the case I hope somebody else has the sense to step in and realize there actually are more important issues as hand with this than the subject of herps and nature - pretty much not much else is but yeah - this one is.
Hi Kelly,

Under no circumstances should someone, as an adult mentor, be present with an underage mentee without a parent or guardian present. It is an awkward situation and not appropriate. I am agreeing with your point, but also arguing that mentoring should not even be considered without parental support and presence.

klawnskale wrote:I am going to be pragmatic here. There is just so much that can be done to try and educate each and every child out there. It's a big world out there with a lot of school age children. There are many underserved communities across the planet that do not have the access to resources to enrich their childrens' lives in the idealistic way we would all hope they would have privilege to. So, as an educator/mentor, you make the best out of the situation at hand within the reality you are working in. Even if it meant you guided an individual child for two months at a camp. That will still leave a lasting impression. I no longer view the world with the youthful idealism that I can convince the entire human population that I can make a difference.
So, I find contentment in knowing that perhaps I have made some kind of positive impact on the kids I was able to reach out to and perhaps down the pike, this will lead to more good for future generations. At least, this is a more attainable goal than worrying about being able to reach out to every troubled youth that's out there. ;)

I agree with making the best out of the situation, but I argue that idealism does not have to be youthful, nor does it have to be naïve (my word, not yours). With a lot of knowledge to share, and your heart in the right place, you can make a tremendous difference for a child or even a few children a year, just by sharing what you know and caring enough to show up and do it.

If you are not familiar with the starfish analogy, please see below:

While walking along a beach, an elderly gentleman saw someone in the distance leaning down, picking something up and throwing it into the ocean.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, picking up starfish one by one and tossing each one gently back into the water.

He came closer still and called out, “Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?”

The young man paused, looked up, and replied “Throwing starfish into the ocean.”

The old man smiled, and said, “I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?”

To this, the young man replied, “The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don’t throw them in, they’ll die.”

Upon hearing this, the elderly observer commented, “But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can’t possibly make a difference!”

The young man listened politely. Then he bent down, picked up another starfish, threw it into the back into the ocean past the breaking waves and said, “It made a difference for that one.”
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Hadar
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Hadar »

It doesnt make sense to me that on one hand there would be concerns about parents getting upset that their kids are "being targeted by extremist agendas" yet on the other hand think they would, in this day and age of increased child safety awareness - allow their child to have an adult mentor, alone, just because said adult put their name on some kind of list to do so. It doesn't matter WHAT group or organization - sports, church, special interest, etc, no parent I know would allow that - as it ISNT safe.

Truly hell would freeze over before my nieces or friends children would be alone with an adult and if that isn't the case I hope somebody else has the sense to step in and realize there actually are more important issues as hand with this than the subject of herps and nature - pretty much not much else is but yeah - this one is.

Hi Kelly,

Under no circumstances should someone, as an adult mentor, be present with an underage mentee without a parent or guardian present. It is an awkward situation and not appropriate. I am agreeing with your point, but also arguing that mentoring should not even be considered without parental support and presence.
Creating a list of people interested in mentoring doesn't mean that parents are going agree to leave their children with strangers. It's more just to see how many people across the country (world) are interested in encouraging youth involvement and passion in herpetology. A subject that doesn't get much attention in school and some parents may not understand well. All of my volunteering positions required background checks. Just last week I completed a training with the U.S. Department of State to renew my certification to work with international youth ambassadors. My thought was that if we showed some kind of organized interest in mentoring (not everyone, just those who want to and have time), is that it would be a resource for parents.
I am going to be pragmatic here. There is just so much that can be done to try and educate each and every child out there. It's a big world out there with a lot of school age children. There are many underserved communities across the planet that do not have the access to resources to enrich their childrens' lives in the idealistic way we would all hope they would have privilege to. So, as an educator/mentor, you make the best out of the situation at hand within the reality you are working in. Even if it meant you guided an individual child for two months at a camp. That will still leave a lasting impression. I no longer view the world with the youthful idealism that I can convince the entire human population that I can make a difference.
So, I find contentment in knowing that perhaps I have made some kind of positive impact on the kids I was able to reach out to and perhaps down the pike, this will lead to more good for future generations. At least, this is a more attainable goal than worrying about being able to reach out to every troubled youth that's out there. ;)
You can never help everyone but helping a child open up and find something they are passionate about and then leaving without giving them a way to continue isn't doing our best. Sure kids can go out on their own and herp in the woods by themselves but is that any safer than going in a small group with a mentor that parents approve? I'm concerned that youth will lose their connection to nature if we don't do our part to help. With kids playing inside with electronics so much, shouldn't we encourage the exploration of nature?
I agree with making the best out of the situation, but I argue that idealism does not have to be youthful, nor does it have to be naïve (my word, not yours). With a lot of knowledge to share, and your heart in the right place, you can make a tremendous difference for a child or even a few children a year, just by sharing what you know and caring enough to show up and do it.

If you are not familiar with the starfish analogy, please see below:

While walking along a beach, an elderly gentleman saw someone in the distance leaning down, picking something up and throwing it into the ocean.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, picking up starfish one by one and tossing each one gently back into the water.

He came closer still and called out, “Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?”

The young man paused, looked up, and replied “Throwing starfish into the ocean.”

The old man smiled, and said, “I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?”

To this, the young man replied, “The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don’t throw them in, they’ll die.”

Upon hearing this, the elderly observer commented, “But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can’t possibly make a difference!”

The young man listened politely. Then he bent down, picked up another starfish, threw it into the back into the ocean past the breaking waves and said, “It made a difference for that one.”
Great point. Plus, with each kid we reach, there is the potential that we can debunk negative herp stereotypes that adults (parents and other family members) have. Just a thought. I'll continue doing what I do but if there is an interest from others in doing more, I'm all for it.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Kelly Mc »

MCHerper wrote:
If you are not familiar with the starfish analogy, please see below:

While walking along a beach, an elderly gentleman saw someone in the distance leaning down, picking something up and throwing it into the ocean.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, picking up starfish one by one and tossing each one gently back into the water.

He came closer still and called out, “Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?”

The young man paused, looked up, and replied “Throwing starfish into the ocean.”

The old man smiled, and said, “I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?”

To this, the young man replied, “The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don’t throw them in, they’ll die.”

Upon hearing this, the elderly observer commented, “But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can’t possibly make a difference!”

The young man listened politely. Then he bent down, picked up another starfish, threw it into the back into the ocean past the breaking waves and said, “It made a difference for that one.”

Yes. I love this parable and have been knocked down to one knee to tell it, regarding those who are standing on the fence about whether to give up their Ball Python or Leopard Gecko out of disinterest, or because they are moving. Children and adults alike.

People are capable of helping, sharing, growing, and changing their view.

A person can find new beauty in an instant. They Can.

Good Points .. Everyone.
MCHerper
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by MCHerper »

I just wanted to add something to a thread that is already full of good stuff; for those of you who have never read the book 'The Last Child in the Woods', it's definitely a recommended read, especially for parents, teachers, naturalists, and nature enthusiasts like us.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Child-Woods- ... 156512605X
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by klawnskale »

"Lost Child In The Woods" is considered a standard primer for nature educators. The points that Hadar brings up are a sad reflection on the status of our society. When I was a child I spent countless hours in open fields and wooded areas by myself exploring to find all types of creatures. I came home dirty with a box or jar containing bugs or amphibians that I happened to find to study at home and later release. I had my Little Golden Book Guides to help me along. No one back then had the same concerns as nowadays about letting a child explore alone. I was raised within the 5 Boroughs of New York City and was able to do this. It is a different world nowadays and reaching out to the community to create an awareness and appreciation for the natural world is far more challenging. Kids back then made exploring nature as part of their playtime. The social technology available nowadays is formidable competition. I went herpng with someone years back who insisted upon bringing their 11 year old son. He climbed up the granite rocky outcroppings as we searched for snakes and then after about 20 minutes, he found a nice flat rock to sit on, got out his headphones and Gameboy and sat there while his father and I continued herping. We are now dealing with a generation of short attention span.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by mfb »

This is a fantastic, wide-ranging thread! Thanks to Hadar for starting it.

I want to revisit the topic of anthropomorphic characters. Especially for young children, anthropomorphic characters can be great for getting their interest. My favorite example of this is Dinosaur Train. My kids learned a tremendous amount about paleontology and dinosaurs from this show. And it captured their interest so that they wanted to watch more realistic dinosaur shows as they got older.

Another show that is great for slightly older kids is Wild Kratz. The animals are not anthropomorphized, but the heros who try to help them use all sorts of technology. The only thing I don't like about this show is sometimes it has anti-harvest themes.

Best,

Mike
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by mfb »

Also - forgot to say that I enjoyed the Project WILD information from Klawnsnake's link.

And some of you may enjoy this example of project some kids did while learning about snakes:

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Re: Herp heroes

Post by Hadar »

mfb wrote:Also - forgot to say that I enjoyed the Project WILD information from Klawnsnake's link.

And some of you may enjoy this example of project some kids did while learning about snakes:

Thanks Mike for those great links. It is amazing how much higher quality graphics are in computer games now compared to what we had when I was in elementary school. I remember playing Odell Down Under where you select a fish species and try to survive living in the ocean. The Amazon Trail was fun too.

The snake born this way video is great. Such talented kids. I would've never thought of connecting snake conservation with more ice cream.
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Re: Herp heroes

Post by John Martin »

mfb wrote:And some of you may enjoy this example of project some kids did while learning about snakes:

R u kidding me?! That was one of the most uplifting videos I've ever watched :beer: . Good job mfb :D . And yes Hadar, great thread! I've thoroughly enjoyed your input since your relatively recent postings here.
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