Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

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kschnei1
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Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by kschnei1 »

Hi folks,

I found this garter snake under a picnic table at Santiam Flats campground in Marion County, Oregon yesterday (2 May). It was acting very defensively, striking out at me while I photographed it, and I quickly left it alone and moved on... I don't know snakes well and have a lot of trouble identifying gartersnakes. Can this one be identified from the photo?

https://flic.kr/p/spL497

Thanks in advance!

Ken
Richard F. Hoyer
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Thamnophis ordinoides Northwestern Garter Snake

Richard F. Hoyer 9Corvallis, Oregon)
kschnei1
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by kschnei1 »

Thanks very much, Robert - I'll enter the data point into the HERP database.

Ken
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jonathan
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by jonathan »

Nice find!

Several years ago I stopped at another campground on that river just a little ways from there, and also found a Northwestern Garter.

Image



Interestingly, I've spent a ton of time in the mountains just to the east of there, and never find anything other than Valley Garters. The Northwestern Garters don't seem to get very high into the Cascades in my experience.
Richard F. Hoyer
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

Thamnophis elegans also occurs in all counties on the east side of the Willamette Valley. It has been my limited experience that the species is usually associated with water.

Richard F. Hoyer
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Paul Freed
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by Paul Freed »

For the past ten years I have been conducting a daily herpetological survey on my road for a one mile stretch and of the three species of garter snakes (Red-spotted, Mountain, and Northwestern) found in this area (the western foothills of the Cascades in Clackamas County) the Northwestern is by far the most common (10 times more common than the Red-spotted Garter and several hundred times more common than the Mountain Garter). I've also observed six color/pattern phases of the Northwestern Garter Snake.
-Paul
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by Nwherper »

jonathan wrote:Nice find!

Several years ago I stopped at another campground on that river just a little ways from there, and also found a Northwestern Garter.

Image


Interestingly, I've spent a ton of time in the mountains just to the east of there, and never find anything other than Valley Garters. The Northwestern Garters don't seem to get very high into the Cascades in my experience.[/quo




I beg to differ Jonathan. Although most of my high elevation records are mostly valley garter's I did find a solo Northwestern garter right next to their habitat, and that is 4500+ ft. Also what are the distinguishing factors for identifying Mountain garter's?
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jonathan
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by jonathan »

Interestingly, I've spent a ton of time in the mountains just to the east of there, and never find anything other than Valley Garters. The Northwestern Garters don't seem to get very high into the Cascades in my experience.
I beg to differ Jonathan. Although most of my high elevation records are mostly valley garter's I did find a solo Northwestern garter right next to their habitat, and that is 4500+ ft. Also what are the distinguishing factors for identifying Mountain garter's?
Oh, I certainly don't believe that I've herped the Cascades enough to say that northwestern garters never get above 3,000 feet. It's just that I find at least one Valley Garter every single time I herp over 3,000 feet, while I only seem to find Northwestern Garters on the way home in lower elevations on the same trips. But I'm only talking about 6-10 trips, mostly to the same general area - Jefferson Wilderness.



Here is a great key for west coast garter snakes:

http://www.californiaherps.com/identifi ... eskey.html


And here are some additional helpful photos:

http://www1.dnr.wa.gov/nhp/refdesk/herp ... _thor.html



Though their stripes can be different, I haven't found that to be reliable across their range (some of Oregon's northwestern garters have a stripe that looks elegans-ish, and some more southern elegans garters have a stripe that looks northwestern-ish), and prefer to rely on a combination of stripe, midbody scale count, and labial scale count.
Richard F. Hoyer
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by Richard F. Hoyer »

The following is based on my observations of the Northwestern Garter Snake. In the early 1960’s, intrigued by the huge variation I had observed, I almost made the decision to concentrate on T. ordinoides instead of Charina bottae.

From memory, here is what I believe I noted at that time.
1) Basic dorsal ground coloration: black, blue, brown, gray, shades of olive or green. One specimen was found that was all yellow dorsally .
2) Striping: the species can exhibit a single dorsal stripe, two lateral stripes, a dorsal and both lateral stripes or striping can be totally or partially absent. Stripes can vary in width and color intensity (red, yellow, whitish, bluish.
3) Blotching: black blotches can be present or absent and if present, vary in size. and ‘abundance’.
4) Flecking: White, yellow, and red flecks can be present or absent on specimens.
5) Ventrals: Coloration ranges from black, blue, green, red, to dull gray commonly with a combination thereof. Some younger specimens have been observed with black ventral cross barring similar to the Common Sharp-tailed Snake.

Head coloration also can vary considerably. Others may be able to add to the above as I don’t for one minute believe I have covered all of the variation that likely occurs in the species.

Richard F. Hoyer (Corvallis, Oregon)
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by Nwherper »

Thanks for the link Jonathan. I just wanted to clear thing's up a little bit about what you said. I just got a W Skink county record For Wasco county to. I know their present in Hood river and Multnomah counties, because I've seen pictures that people have uploaded on some hiking forums. They also showed Northwestern alligator lizard and rubber boa's. And a little spot for Pygmy short horned lizards in Klichitat county. I also hope to find any county records or lifer's I can find.
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jonathan
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Re: Help with garter snake ID, Marion County, Oregon?

Post by jonathan »

Nwherper wrote:Thanks for the link Jonathan. I just wanted to clear thing's up a little bit about what you said. I just got a W Skink county record For Wasco county to. I know their present in Hood river and Multnomah counties, because I've seen pictures that people have uploaded on some hiking forums. They also showed Northwestern alligator lizard and rubber boa's. And a little spot for Pygmy short horned lizards in Klichitat county. I also hope to find any county records or lifer's I can find.

Awesome! There aren't nearly enough people uploading records like that for that region. Those of us who have been recording from the area are a little bit too specialized on salamanders. ;)
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