Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Moderator: Scott Waters
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I am requesting a California Rattlesnake Expert for positive ID and habitat range
I have reason to believe this rattlesnake may be 50+ miles OUT of range.
Story:
I was scanning YouTube for video of rattlesnakes - as always because I have a great interest in rattlesnake species identification.
My specific interests are rattlesnakes, I am an amateur in field herping.
So ... here is a video I was viewing and I noticed this rattlesnake; looks like a Crotalus oreganus lutosus - Great Basin. Then ... I notice that the person who recorded the video indicated that he shot the video in a location of ten (10) air miles south-west of Yosemite.
Instantly, I said to myself ... that CAN'T be correct, that area is wayyy out of range for lutosus. So, I posted a question in the comments section of the YouTube video. Well, I received a reply almost immediately. Please go to YouTube and read the comments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNunAlJwZMQ
After receiving exact address of the gentleman in the video via eMail ... I have confirmed that the location of this rattlesnake is only a few miles due east of Mariposa, CA.
Please GO TO this link for map of Mariposa CA https://www.google.com/maps/place/Marip ... 644e?hl=en
Please view this video, it is excellent quality in 720p HD -- GO TO close up at 1:41 and view the head. This is where I said "lutosus...!"
I have reason to believe this rattlesnake may be 50+ miles OUT of range.
Story:
I was scanning YouTube for video of rattlesnakes - as always because I have a great interest in rattlesnake species identification.
My specific interests are rattlesnakes, I am an amateur in field herping.
So ... here is a video I was viewing and I noticed this rattlesnake; looks like a Crotalus oreganus lutosus - Great Basin. Then ... I notice that the person who recorded the video indicated that he shot the video in a location of ten (10) air miles south-west of Yosemite.
Instantly, I said to myself ... that CAN'T be correct, that area is wayyy out of range for lutosus. So, I posted a question in the comments section of the YouTube video. Well, I received a reply almost immediately. Please go to YouTube and read the comments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNunAlJwZMQ
After receiving exact address of the gentleman in the video via eMail ... I have confirmed that the location of this rattlesnake is only a few miles due east of Mariposa, CA.
Please GO TO this link for map of Mariposa CA https://www.google.com/maps/place/Marip ... 644e?hl=en
Please view this video, it is excellent quality in 720p HD -- GO TO close up at 1:41 and view the head. This is where I said "lutosus...!"
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I do believe that snake falls under the category of double O seven. He prefers to be shakin' but not diSTURbed.
http://www.californiaherps.com/identifi ... nakes.html
(Range maps)
http://www.californiaherps.com/identifi ... nakes.html
(Range maps)
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Double Organus tend to have a more Native American/ basin/desert-ish look to them the further south you get on the western side of the mountains. Ive never seen any tail shakers from the area this guy is filming, but I'm guessing that is the reason for the simlarity (fresno county(
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by California Reptile & Amphibian Appreciation, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by California Reptile & Amphibian Appreciation, on Flickr
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
However, they accur further north as well (el dorado county). With less of a certain sandy texture-ish look
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by California Reptile & Amphibian Appreciation, on Flickr
Northern Pacific Rattlesnake by California Reptile & Amphibian Appreciation, on Flickr
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Welllllllllll ... I'll be dawg, aint that a sunnuvagun
Well, I learned something new today -- thank you
Golly dawg ... will'ya just look at that ... just look at that....................
Well, I learned something new today -- thank you
Golly dawg ... will'ya just look at that ... just look at that....................
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Hi John,
Oreganus have a tremendous amount of variability, especially on upper Sierra mtn slopes. Basically over the years I have seen a number of people enter into debate over these variables. The Virdis/Organus Species Complex is extremely complicated and not consistent.
Depending on who you ask organus and lotus are the same species and this is only a sub species variability. There is new DNA that splits them into individual species.
I have see some pictures of finds that look a lot like lotus all they way to the Kern County area.
Basicly, what I am getting at is this "species complex" is complicated and IMO these snakes have expanded and deexpanded over the past million plus years with the eb and flows of the 10 or so last Ice ages, mixing the color pattern variables, creating look morphological matches in different zones.
Thus, since it is a part of the same complex, it isn't really out of range, IMO.
Thats my 1 cent of opinion
Fundad
Oreganus have a tremendous amount of variability, especially on upper Sierra mtn slopes. Basically over the years I have seen a number of people enter into debate over these variables. The Virdis/Organus Species Complex is extremely complicated and not consistent.
Depending on who you ask organus and lotus are the same species and this is only a sub species variability. There is new DNA that splits them into individual species.
I have see some pictures of finds that look a lot like lotus all they way to the Kern County area.
Basicly, what I am getting at is this "species complex" is complicated and IMO these snakes have expanded and deexpanded over the past million plus years with the eb and flows of the 10 or so last Ice ages, mixing the color pattern variables, creating look morphological matches in different zones.
Thus, since it is a part of the same complex, it isn't really out of range, IMO.
Thats my 1 cent of opinion
Fundad
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Fascinating stuff gentlemen -- very fascinating
I understand now ... the pics above are great help. And there is another species that throws me off like this 'double O' and that is the Prairie (viridis viridis) and the Hopi (viridis nuntius). I posted a video of scientific taxonomy in 'The Forum' that they are one in the same, but that's a whole different subject.
I don't know why I am so interested in rattlesnake ID, I just am ... thank you for sharing your knowledge, appreciate it very much.
One more thing you might find humorous is the guy in the video ... is the "Double Rainbow Guy"
I understand now ... the pics above are great help. And there is another species that throws me off like this 'double O' and that is the Prairie (viridis viridis) and the Hopi (viridis nuntius). I posted a video of scientific taxonomy in 'The Forum' that they are one in the same, but that's a whole different subject.
I don't know why I am so interested in rattlesnake ID, I just am ... thank you for sharing your knowledge, appreciate it very much.
One more thing you might find humorous is the guy in the video ... is the "Double Rainbow Guy"
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I couldn't have said it better myself Brian. No, really.. I couldn't
The only thing I notice that is consistent is that they show the desert-like traights at the bottom of their range. But I have only seen a few in the middle of the state. Growing up in the Sacramento valley I saw numerous along the rivers, lakes, foothills, and Sierras. None display the "desert" or arrid look. I remember when I first saw the ones at the bottom of the range, that really caught my eye. I'd seen nothing like it. As the habitat changes, they look more like the speckled or even panamint north east of there...or Great Basin Definitely a habitat adaptation thing. Which to me resembles the Indian trible designs of that region. Most likely mimicked from the snakes they saw. But, I'm speculating and never read that. Just seems to make sense. From an art point of view. The oak wooded, pine, and valley/foothill individuals definitely have a "quality"(not variation in pattern, tjat is still never consistant) unique to the vegetation, rocks, soils, ect...in the habitat. I'm nowhere near an expert. But that's my take on it.
I think 007s are ment to be mysterious ...and why it's coincidentally #7 on the map, I'm sure is top secret
The only thing I notice that is consistent is that they show the desert-like traights at the bottom of their range. But I have only seen a few in the middle of the state. Growing up in the Sacramento valley I saw numerous along the rivers, lakes, foothills, and Sierras. None display the "desert" or arrid look. I remember when I first saw the ones at the bottom of the range, that really caught my eye. I'd seen nothing like it. As the habitat changes, they look more like the speckled or even panamint north east of there...or Great Basin Definitely a habitat adaptation thing. Which to me resembles the Indian trible designs of that region. Most likely mimicked from the snakes they saw. But, I'm speculating and never read that. Just seems to make sense. From an art point of view. The oak wooded, pine, and valley/foothill individuals definitely have a "quality"(not variation in pattern, tjat is still never consistant) unique to the vegetation, rocks, soils, ect...in the habitat. I'm nowhere near an expert. But that's my take on it.
I think 007s are ment to be mysterious ...and why it's coincidentally #7 on the map, I'm sure is top secret
- Brian Hubbs
- Posts: 4735
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:41 am
- Location: "Buy My Books"-land
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Dem rattlers are jus' sneaky bastiges that wear a lot of disguises so we'uns won't know what they is...
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
This is exactly correct ... copy/paste this to Google Images ---► indian rattlesnake patternPorter wrote:I couldn't have said it better myself Brian. No, really.. I couldn't
The only thing I notice that is consistent is that they show the desert-like traights at the bottom of their range. But I have only seen a few in the middle of the state. Growing up in the Sacramento valley I saw numerous along the rivers, lakes, foothills, and Sierras. None display the "desert" or arrid look. I remember when I first saw the ones at the bottom of the range, that really caught my eye. I'd seen nothing like it. As the habitat changes, they look more like the speckled or even panamint north east of there...or Great Basin Definitely a habitat adaptation thing. Which to me resembles the Indian trible designs of that region. Most likely mimicked from the snakes they saw. But, I'm speculating and never read that. Just seems to make sense. From an art point of view. The oak wooded, pine, and valley/foothill individuals definitely have a "quality"(not variation in pattern, tjat is still never consistant) unique to the vegetation, rocks, soils, ect...in the habitat. I'm nowhere near an expert. But that's my take on it.
I think 007s are ment to be mysterious ...and why it's coincidentally #7 on the map, I'm sure is top secret
And go here for various images and their meaning, go to bottom left of page for snake pattern ---► http://www.collectorsguide.com/fa/fa040.shtml
Myself being of Native American decent (Apache/Mescaleros), I am very interested in these facts, fascinating for sure.
Hahahaaa... and Hubbs ... you crack me up
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I couldn't have said it better myself Brian. No, really.. I couldn't
Thanks for link I'll be sure to check it out
Thanks for link I'll be sure to check it out
-
- Posts: 8025
- Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:12 am
- Location: Hesperia, California.
- Contact:
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Carriso Plains oregonus are reputed to look more like lutosis than oregonus... but i've heard that the oregonus around Taft are really unique. jim
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
From: CaliforniaHerps web page http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/p ... tml#statushellihooks wrote:Carriso Plains oregonus are reputed to look more like lutosis than oregonus... but i've heard that the oregonus around Taft are really unique. jim
Scroll down to Section Title: C. o. oreganus can be similar to C. o. lutosus at their southern range limit
The above titled segment makes mention of southern San Joaquin Valley, Carrizo Plains -- worth a look.
And here: http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/p ... ganus.html
Scroll down to Section Title: Variations in Appearance Near the Southern Range Limit
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Here are two c. o. oreganus, both found in the same rock outcropping on the northside of the Tehachapi Mountains, i.e., about as far south as they go before they start intergrading with c. o. helleri.
The lighter of the two is the most beautiful snake from the c. oreganus complex we have ever seen.
Robert
The lighter of the two is the most beautiful snake from the c. oreganus complex we have ever seen.
Robert
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Wow.. I think I just realized what this post is about. John, your from ukia? Just watched the rainbow guys other vids. Pretty cold
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I just pm'd you Hinds... but im gonna post it here so everyone can see. Is there a way to remove my profile from this forum?
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Oh, wait so... this john guy is anothrr fake profile right? Damn
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I'd like to have my profile removed please hinds. No joking. Please
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Can someone explain to me what's going on ^^^ please
ATTN: Fundad or Owen ... or Scott Waters ... please explain what Mr. Porter is doing.
I am NOT a fake profile -- I'll PM you or a Moderator my phone number if you want to call me ... I'm using my birth given name on this site and I am establishing a GOOD credibility here on the wonderful site.
May I ask you what on God's good green earth is it that makes you think I'm a fake account? - Please explain, and maybe I can help you.
ATTN: Fundad or Owen ... or Scott Waters ... please explain what Mr. Porter is doing.
I am NOT a fake profile -- I'll PM you or a Moderator my phone number if you want to call me ... I'm using my birth given name on this site and I am establishing a GOOD credibility here on the wonderful site.
May I ask you what on God's good green earth is it that makes you think I'm a fake account? - Please explain, and maybe I can help you.
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I have no idea what is going on in this thread, but John your are welcome to our chapter forum and Fieldherpforum anytime.
This is just a rattlesnake discussion, that involves many different opinions.
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President
This is just a rattlesnake discussion, that involves many different opinions.
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Thank you Brian -- Appreciate it very much.
jd
jd
- Brian Hubbs
- Posts: 4735
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:41 am
- Location: "Buy My Books"-land
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
Error Message 209...
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I was subject to a few facebook pranks last year. Deleted facebook because f it. This seemed to fit the bill... don't want to get into any details. It had to do with a girl, nuff said. (some of you know who.please don't post her name.thx) I was worried about her being embarrassed. Idk, she'd probably just laugh and call me sissy anyway my apologies John.
Hubbs...it's been months since I had a drink. I work 10-12hr days. Not safe. However, tonight I may go get one
Hubbs...it's been months since I had a drink. I work 10-12hr days. Not safe. However, tonight I may go get one
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
brian...why did you change your message right as I writing mine? now it just looks like I more delusional and off subject lol siggghhhh... I give.
- Brian Hubbs
- Posts: 4735
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:41 am
- Location: "Buy My Books"-land
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I thought I was being rude, even tho I was jus' funin' ya... An you know me, I hates ta be rude...
- John Delgado
- Posts: 168
- Joined: June 29th, 2014, 11:10 am
- Location: Ukiah, CA
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
It's okay Porter, no harm donePorter wrote:
...It had to do with a girl, nuff said. (some of you know who.please don't post her name.thx) I was worried about her being embarrassed. Idk, she'd probably just laugh and call me sissy anyway my apologies John.
- Brian Hubbs
- Posts: 4735
- Joined: June 7th, 2010, 11:41 am
- Location: "Buy My Books"-land
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
John, there's something you need to know about this forum:
Brian Hinds is FUNDAD (do not call him Brian)
I am BRIAN...you can call me Brian
Too damn many Brian's around here...
Brian Hinds is FUNDAD (do not call him Brian)
I am BRIAN...you can call me Brian
Too damn many Brian's around here...
Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I am glad we are all good now. Well done
Robert
Robert
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- Posts: 8025
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- Location: Hesperia, California.
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Re: Need Rattlesnake ID Please - VIDEO
I'm changing my name to Claude Wright II...