Couple interesting recent finds...

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ratsnakehaven
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Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

First, I could use some help i.d.ing this spadefoot toad....
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I originally called it Couch's spadefoot, but after more consideration I changed my i.d. to the Mexican spadefoot, or Southern spadefoot. Actually, in the database I believe the name has been changed to the Chihuahuan Desert spadefoot, Spea multiplicata stagnalis, which is how I entered it. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Also, found a nice tiger rattlesnake couple nights ago in the Santa Ritas. The monsoons have begun and saw five amphibian species altogether. Here's an in situ of the tiger....
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Canyon treefrogs are calling from montane streams....
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I love playing in the water...lol.
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ThamnElegans24
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ThamnElegans24 »

I agree Terry, Spea multiplicata.
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Thanks, Ben. Do you agree with the new common name, Chihuahuan Desert spadefoot?
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

I might as well add this one here too. Originally, I thought this was the Chihuahuan black-headed snake, Tantilla wilcoxi, but after much closer observation, in order to key out, I found that it was Smith's black-headed snake, T. hobartsmithi. This was an unusual find, because it was at around 5,000 ft. elevation, and a county record for Santa Cruz. ..
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Either species would have been a good find in that location...Santa Ritas.
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ThamnElegans24
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ThamnElegans24 »

I think I will always call them Mexican Spadefoots, no matter what the sub-species.
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

I hear ya', but I kind of like Chihuahuan Desert spadefoot, making it ecologically different from the Couch's, which I'm taking as a Sonoran Desert specialty... :)
Verhoodled
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by Verhoodled »

Terrific finds Terry! Especially that hobartsmithi. I had no idea they went that high.
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Thanks, Monty. I didn't know they went that high either, which is why I thought it was T. wilcoxi at first.
Verhoodled
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by Verhoodled »

I love it when herps make my head spin upon what little I know. I may be down your way in the next week or two. I'll reach out if you're about. I'd love to hook up if you're around. If not, we'll hook up next time.
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Call me. These darn rats are taking up too much space in my freezer...LOL. :beer:
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

A few nights ago we got a hard rain. I went out on the front porch to see if any fossorial snakes came up from under the walkway. Didn't see any, but did get a Couch's spadefoot. Here's a pic comparing it to the Chihuahuan Desert spadefoot I found the night before...
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Easy to see the difference when side by side... :) Couch's on the left, btw.

Here's a closeup...
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Just hoping these images will help some folks to enter their data correctly. That is, lots of folks visit AZ and aren't really into the amphibians so much.

Things are heating up. Will be getting busier soon... :beer:
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Brian Hubbs
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by Brian Hubbs »

That's a female Couch's by the way...
hellihooks
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by hellihooks »

send some of that rain our way...lol do they have a lot of hobartsmithi in AZ? very spotty distribution in Ca... I've only ever found one...near Trona... :beer:
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Brian Hubbs wrote:That's a female Couch's by the way...
I thought it was, Brian. The males are usually a pretty even greenish color, but sometimes I'm not sure. Last year I didn't work with the amphibs much, so I forgot a lot of this stuff and have to refresh the tired ol' brain cells...LOL.
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

hellihooks wrote:send some of that rain our way...lol do they have a lot of hobartsmithi in AZ? very spotty distribution in Ca... I've only ever found one...near Trona... :beer:
Well, Jim, I think they prefer some amount of moisture in the soil. I have found them in the floodplain of the Santa Cruz and in the foothills of the Santa Ritas, and not inbetween. I wasn't really looking for them, but found two last winter flipping rocks in the foothills. The one I just posted I found on the road at night at 5,000 ft., which is pretty high up, and also in Santa Cruz Co. Not normally found in S. C. Co. I think it is a very common snake in their preferred habitat, just that we don't see them very often, as they only seem to be on the surface when it's moist. I also think they are a favored food item for snakes like the coral and desert king.

Edit: Thought I'd add that we found one while hunting boas a couple years ago in the mountains of La Paz County (western AZ). It was at a fairly high elevation under a rock... ;)
hellihooks
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by hellihooks »

I guess I shoulda looked out my window before I asked for rain... had to go noose a couple of lizards before work, for a herp talk I'm giving tomorrow... and got sprinkled on... lol. All of my Coastal (SD) tantilla have been rock-flipped, in rocky foothills... but my smith's... middle of the road, in some low hills, in a very VERY dry part of the desert (just south of Death Valley) :shock: I guess they're like Regal Ringneck... you NEVER expect to find one in the desert... but... thar they be... :lol: :lol: cool post BTW... took me a long time to get my first spade, but worth the wait... :thumb:
Aaron Mills
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by Aaron Mills »

Hey Terry, do you have a head shot of the Tantilla? It could be yaqui
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Unfortunately, the camera I was using doesn't take very good macro shots; but I did bring the snake home for closer observation and it looked a lot like hobartsmithi to me. There was very little neck ring and the dark cap extended back of the parietals only a couple rows. I have very little experience with yaqui (except for my lifer), but I didn't think they occurred in the Ritas. I will pay closer attention in the future, both to the hobartsmithi I see in the foothills and any that I might find higher up. I have seen wilcoxi in the Ritas, btw, at almost the same elevation as that last hobartsmithi, only a little higher up.

Thanks for introducing the possibility of yaqui, as that is something that might be possible... ;)

Terry
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Steve Bledsoe
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by Steve Bledsoe »

Terry,
I'm curious what pushed you over to hobartsmithi on your Black-headed Snake ID.
Granted, all I have to go by is your photo, but that snake appears to have a definite light colored collar marking with a narrow dark border on the back edge of it. I've always understood the collar marking to be a "sure" indicator of wilcoxi. Is there some other indicator you saw?

Steve
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ratsnakehaven
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by ratsnakehaven »

Hi, Steve.

The wilcoxi has a very pronounced neck ring (Stebbins, p.498), which extends from back of parietals a couple rows to a distinct black border. Hobartsmithi has a very indistint neck ring with a couple rows of scales bt. it and the parietals and no border. What confused me a little was the slight, dark spotting where a border might have been behind the neck ring. Closer examination pointed to hobartsmithi, although a slim possibility is that it could have been an aberrant wilcoxi (hemipenes would confirm). Wish I had preserved it now. Could there possibly be hybrids?

BTW, yaqui doesn't have a neck ring.

Terry :crazyeyes:
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by Steve Bledsoe »

Thanks Terry,
It was the small black spots at the back of the neck ring that got my attention. Thanks for the explanation.
reako45
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Re: Couple interesting recent finds...

Post by reako45 »

Great find on the Tiger. Was hoping to see one of those there, but didn't :( . They're great looking crotes.

reako45
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