Nerodia Sipedon Question

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MCHerper
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Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by MCHerper »

Hi Folks,

I've got a puzzling circumstance that I was hoping the experts might shed some light on. There is a park nearby with a lake fed by several streams. The outflow stream leads directly to a major river, and the inflow stream originates in headwaters near former agricultural land, and empties into the lake.

I've observed snappers and painted turtles there, green and bullfrogs, peepers and gray treefrogs, wood frogs, racers, garters, etc. There is a good balance of herpetofauna, and with decent population densities. It seems to be a healthy ecosystem with good numbers of fish, herons, other waterfowl, etc. However, I have never seen a Nerodia there, anywhere near or in the lake or within any of the streams. I assumed that Nerodia are almost always a given within aquatic ecosystems within their range. Assuming that there are actually no Nerodia within this aquatic ecosystem, my question then becomes, what would decimate a population of Nerodia? Also, has anyone ever observed a healthy aquatic ecosystem in the Northeast with an absence of Nerodia? Is this as unusual as I think it is?

Thanks for your input!

MCHerper
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cbernz
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by cbernz »

Interesting question. It would be pretty hard by yourself to prove a total absence of Nerodia, even if you spend a lot of time looking. I can think of a couple types of aquatic habitat where I rarely or never find Nerodia: fish-free vernal wetlands in woods, and small, heavily-shaded streams in woods. It could be that these places don't have enough suitable prey to attract water snakes, or it could be that in those shaded habitats they don't bask as much and you are less likely to find them. I suspect it's a bit of both. In wooded vernal wetlands, I sometimes find dozens of garter and ribbons out hunting in a single afternoon without seeing a single Nerodia.

But a stream-fed lake with fish is a different story. That is odd.
MCHerper
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by MCHerper »

Thanks Cliff. It is a small lake and I often see at least a few herons there, and I believe that they are nesting there. Could these guys be a factor in keeping the Nerodia population down to almost nothing?
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Kyle from Carolina
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by Kyle from Carolina »

Although I'm sure a heron would readily take a Nerodia, I've found them within earshot of a heron rookery in Maryland, so my guess is that there might be another reason. No clue as to what though.
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incuhead2000
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by incuhead2000 »

I have herped several places and noticed an absence of Nerodia during certain times but during other times in the same place they are everywhere. It isn't just a time of year, it can also be the time of day. Is this a place you visit often? Look in overhanging bushes if you can find any, Nerodia will regularly climb into dense cover like overhanging bushes too, I've even spotted several over my head in dense vegetation six feet up over water. Spring is the best time to catch them during the day and during the summer try late afternoons right into early dusk if you are allowed to be there past sunset. Usually in the warmest months they tend to be hiding out, you might even try flipping for them under large rocks in the creeks feeding the lake or near any outflows where it is cooler during the summer. I've literally hiked a trail in one direction in the afternoon and not seen a single snake, turned around hiking the same way and seen many snakes catching the late afternoon heat before nighttime, usually the majority of these being water snakes with a few copperheads and black ratsnakes coming out from their daytime hides.

In lake like habitat I may see nerodia swimming along or doing the periscope to catch a breath during the summer but have always had the best luck finding them along creeks and small streams where they can hide out better from predators and food is easier for them to catch. Check out log jams and overhanging root masses too but look from a distance, a lot of the time when you get too close they bail into the water.
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ZantiMissKnit
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

We have one place on our rotation where we have NEVER found an adult or live nerodia, but we have found one dead neonate and two large skins. The only place we have found the skins is at the base of this man-made fall:

Image
mikez
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by mikez »

My parents live on a small pond in coastal southern Maine. They have lived there 20 years. My father is a naturalist outside all day. Myself and my brothers and all our kids have been all over that land for 20 years. We have snake hunts with the kids all the time.

Not one single watersnake ever showed in all that time. The habitat looks perfect.

What I don't know, being on the edge of their range in Maine, is how rare they are, maybe they're just spotty. I haven't searched other places in Maine.

If there's anything that limits nerodia, my guess is it would be suitable hibernaculum habitat. All the best places I know for finding watersnakes inn the northeast have den sites near by. Maybe they're picky about den sites and don't populate an area without the right habitat for denning.
MCHerper
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by MCHerper »

This is great info. I will keep looking next year. Thanks for your help folks!
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beemaster
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by beemaster »

ZantiMissKnit wrote:We have one place on our rotation where we have NEVER found an adult or live nerodia, but we have found one dead neonate and two large skins. The only place we have found the skins is at the base of this man-made fall:

Image
If you guys had stuck with us, I spotted this little guy basking on the main trail on the way back-Image

As an aside, I did teach the young man to be gentle when handling a snake this way and that it isn't necessary at all with a snake this small (or to some, ever).

Regarding this particular location and water snakes, I just don't think they're very common here. I've only found 4 total in the 15 years I've been frequenting the spot and of the 4, two were neonates from the previous summer/fall and one was a juvenile about a foot long. The other one was a massive female, but she gave me the slip. For the record, I also don't think it's unique to this particular spot. They seem to be less common throughout SE Mass than they are in the rest of the state. Within Bristol County, you cross a point in Easton and all of a sudden they start getting more common. South of that, they seem to be more picky about habitat and less abundant in the areas where they are present.

I think the reason for that is there are very few beaver dams and man-made structures that they tend to prefer as hibernacula in areas where they are more abundant. Down here, they have to rely on completely different spots; tree stumps, mammal burrows, structural foundations, and other similar spots where it isn't as easy to brumate en masse. I think this limits, to some extent, their carrying capacity in this general region. There are lots of spots where I find them, but very few where I can go out and find them in numbers like you can in, say, much of Norfolk, Middlesex, and Worcester counties and Western MA in appropriate conditions. In some viable habitats, they even appear to be completely absent down here.
MCHerper
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by MCHerper »

Thank you Beemaster, your input is greatly appreciated!
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beemaster
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by beemaster »

No problem. Sometimes they turn up in strange spots, too. There are a lot of open, sunny, and well vegetated ponds in this area where they don't seem to be particularly common (or even absent), but then you might randomly turn one up along a RR grade that abuts a wetland you don't typically associate with northern water snakes (i.e. small, fast moving rivers, shaded brooks, pine swamps, etc.). One time a state official spotted one trying to bask on a branch in a closed canopy swamp in Swansea while we were out surveying for something else entirely.

If you are in this area, they start getting a lot more common as you get into Attleboro, Norton, Easton, and points north. It also seems to be the case with a number of other reptiles and amphibians that either become scarce or absent as you get deeper into Bristol and adjacent portions of Plymouth Counties, respectively.

I'd suspect they're probably more common in the East Taunton/Middleborough/Lakeville area, too, but I've only run into a few out that way.
MCHerper
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by MCHerper »

Beemaster,

Thanks for the info, I am actually in New Jersey! That being said, your habitat tips will be helpful, thank you!

MCherper
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beemaster
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Re: Nerodia Sipedon Question

Post by beemaster »

Shoot, my mistake! Well, in that case, just seek out wetlands that tend to be sluggish moving, well vegetated, open, and sunny. Ponds, lakes, slow rivers, and marshes are all great spots. Tend to focus especially on areas where there are beaver dams, old stone dams, old wells, rock piles, etc. They are often present in smaller numbers in less suitable habitat, too, so it never hurts to poke around.
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