The Cali NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-15 Updated

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The Cali NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-15 Updated

Post by Fundad » October 9th, 2014, 5:28 am

More Exciting News

The California Chapter is hosting the NAFHA National Event Friday April 10th thru Sunday April 12th.

The California Board is excited to announce it has chosen The Sacred Oaks Campground http://theoaksatsacredrocks.com/ in Eastern San Diego County as the location of the event.

The campground has a couple large tent areas with shade, with as many as 40 tents or so in each area,
there are also bunk cabins available for rent, as well as trailer for those that would rather not stay in a tent.
We can also roam outside the campground on their property to look for herps.

We will be working on the details of number of activities, the California Board Members have some
great ideas for the event so stay tuned, and we have invited awesome guests as well to talk with us
from a number of agencies.

Eastern SD County is under represented with data, hopefully this event will help change that a little. There is a large number of habitat types in the area giving us a large number of options to deal with most conditions we might encounter.

It will be a really great event.

We have put together some rules and regulations for the event that will be strictly enforced to make sure everyone has a great time, and NAFHA maintains its goals and reputation.


The rules are:
1. Everyone attending must check-in, sign a Liability Waiver, and agree to comply with all NAFHA, Federal, State, and Local laws and regulations. Minors must have a Liability Waiver signed by a parent or legal guardian. Any minor attending that is not accompanied by a parent must be pre-approved by Brian Hinds or Matthew Gruen.

2. Everyone age 16 and older will be required to show a fishing license that covers the time frame of the event. Licenses can be purchased online here: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/ols/

3. There will be NO COLLECTING of live herps at any time during the event. No living herps are to be placed in bags or containers at any time, for any reason!

4. No herps are to be held overnight or possessed at any time. This includes any finds that occur before, during, or immediately after the event. We understand that this has been allowed previously, but it will NOT be allowed for our Meeting in California.

5. Obvious board arrays (board lines), pit traps, or other study sites discovered in the County are not to be disturbed at any time. Junk piles and the like are perfectly OK to search unless otherwise defined at the time of the event.

6. All rocks, logs, and boards that are turned to look under, must be replaced exactly to their original position.

7. No illegal drugs of any kind are to be brought to the event.

8. Other Rules may be added at a later time, or upon check-in.

Any participant that violates any of the above Rules will be asked to leave immediately, and may be put up for suspension from NAFHA, and possibly reported to CDFW officers. We have informed the CDFW of our Meeting dates and location.

Exceptions from the above Rules:
1. Non-native herps such as bullfrogs, Moorish wall geckos, red-eared sliders, etc., found during the event can be collected or possessed live or dead, when otherwise legal to do so.
2. DOR's of non-protected species may be collected/possessed if found outside of protected habitat.
3. Board lines and other study sites set-up by a NAFHA Member may be searched if approval is given beforehand.

Any questions during the event should be directed to one of the six California Chapter Board Members, or to another CA Chapter member that has been selected by the Board to help with the event.

The CA Chapter Board Members recognize that these Rules have not been in place at previous National Meetings, and that they may discourage some people from attending. However, our Chapter has spent 8 years building deep relationships with various agencies and groups, and we are not going to risk those relationships for any reason. We hope everyone attending shares our same goal of building strong relationships in support of the conservation our herps need and deserve.
Unfortunately, a tiny handful of people at previous NAFHA National events have caused some serious problems for NAFHA. For the 2015 Meeting, we will do our best to ensure a good time will be had by all, while herping legally and ethically in the eyes of anyone watching.

We will be inviting a guest speaker from the USGS, and biologists from the CDFW, AZDFG, and NDOW. The Board is working on additional cool activities open to all participants, such as a possible NAFHA BioBlitz one of the days, Learn how to use GPS tools, Campfire story telling, and much more. We have some exciting ideas in the works, so it should be a highly worthwhile event!

Thank You,

The California Chapter Board
Brian Hinds -President
Lawrence Erickson- Conservation Officer
John Lauermann- International Board member
Owen Holt-Vice President
Matthew Gruen- Secretary
Jeff Nordland- Education Specialist

Here is the updated Schedule, with a huge thanks to the CA Board Members and Jeff Nordland for putting this together for us. Please note, some times and details may change due to weather or guest schedules.

Schedule of Events for the 2015 NAFHA National Meeting – Updated March 26th
April 10-12 San Diego County, California

Thurs. April 9th
12 noon – 4 PM Pre-Meeting hike at near coast with Jeff N. and his boys Trevor (age 9) and Brady (age 7). The herping isn’t great, but TPSR has lots of shorebirds and some marine mammals. This is for anyone who’s in town early and wants to spend some time in a unique habitat type with great scenery.

Board Members arrive in San Diego

Friday April 10th
11 AM - 4 PM Participants to check-in to The Oaks at Sacred Rocks campground;
*after checking-in at the entrance with the The Oaks staff, please go straight to site 81 to check-in with NAFHA and get your Welcome Package
4 - 6 PM Meet & Greet Barbecue hosted by CA Chapter at The Oaks
Hosts to list their guided Herp Trips on whiteboard; interested participants should sign-up
6 PM Welcome, Board Member and Member Introductions, and Review of Rules, Safety, and Herping Ethics by Brian Hinds
6:30 – 8:30 PM Guest Speakers 1 & 2
9 - 10 PM NAFHA Acoustic Jam Session 1 & Campfire
10 - 11 PM campfire and Fireside Chats


Saturday April 11th
8-11 AM “GPS for Field Herpers” presented by Lawrence Erickson. Begins with a review of how to use handheld GPS units; then followed by practice in the field.
8 AM Meet at The Oaks for morning guided Herp Trips:
Example: Jeff N. will lead a group to a local area at 10 am and return around 1:30
8:30 AM Kid’s Lizard Noosing Contest hosted by John Lauermann. ?Meet at the Bunkhouse next to the tent camping area? Kids will be given a small noose and try to catch the largest lizard.
2 PM Meet at The Oaks for afternoon guided Herp Trips:
Example: Jeff N. will lead a group to l eave camp at 2:30 PM, return around 6:30 PM.
9-10 PM - NAFHA Acoustic Jam Session 2
9-11 PM – campfire and Fireside Chats
Participants are encouraged to add their finds to the Species Count board

Sunday April 12th
7AM – meet at The Oaks for guided herp trips:
Example: Jeff N. may lead a group into the southern part of ABDSP for in-situ photography of desert lizards. This will be a kid-friendly adventure. Off-road vehicle required. Leave camp at 8:15 AM, return around 2:30 PM.
Also: Brian Hinds may organize a BioBlitz-type large group herping trip. Current plan is to go to the windblown sand area to search for lizards.
All participants should add their finds to the Species Count board
4-5 PM – Meeting Culmination
- Highlights reviewed
- Slideshow?
- ‘Thank You and Farewell Speech’ by Brian Hinds

Monday April 13th
?Post-Meeting herping trips?
(Jeff N. will possibly lead a group to)

Tuesday April 14th
?Post-Meeting herping trips?
(Jeff N. will possibly lead a group to check boardlines near his home in SD.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 9th, 2014, 6:30 am

Cool... sounds great. I guess I know where Josh and I will be, for next year's BBBB (Berdo boys birthday bash) which is on 4-10 :D

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Zach_Lim » October 9th, 2014, 11:54 am

I will not miss this.

I will be there for sure.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 9th, 2014, 12:20 pm

Brian... we gonna have a grip of guys with SCP's so visitors can get good pics of SSC's and protected species, that they'll be sure to want to see?

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by RobertH » October 9th, 2014, 12:41 pm

Nice work, Brian and everyone else who is helping organize this event. The place looks like a really good choice to me, with high desert, low desert and even montane habitats within easy reach.

Nicholas and I certainly plan to be there.

Robert

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 9th, 2014, 4:06 pm

I can't figure out what they're referring to as High Desert? Borrego? other than that... lot of 'down by the border' lifers I still need.. 8-)

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 9th, 2014, 5:22 pm

Brian... we gonna have a grip of guys with SCP's so visitors can get good pics of SSC's and protected species, that they'll be sure to want to see?
At this time, I don't believe that is going to be possible. It is extremely hard to get SCP's in California, and having one could actually backfire on us..

Well see if I can come up with anything, that maybe able to help us. Most likely we will not be able to search for those species specifically and we will have to make due with "in situ" photos of those species.

Fundad

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Owen » October 9th, 2014, 5:52 pm

I have to say that I personally like in-situ photos better. We can't all get photos of every herp.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 10th, 2014, 6:09 am

Owen wrote:I have to say that I personally like in-situ photos better. We can't all get photos of every herp.
I agree... but when you travel all the way across the country and have only limited time to get pics... :? Perhaps something like they did this year in NM/AZ...some special dispensation for a data-collecting 'bio-blitz'. Ultimately the data we collect is for the State... :|
Given the area... hopefully many Ca Glossys will be recorded... 8-) jim

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by ZantiMissKnit » October 10th, 2014, 6:12 am

This is excellent news, Brian. I hope that Mike and I can make it out there!

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by AndyO'Connor » October 10th, 2014, 5:55 pm

Will you be making a similar post or announcement in the Inquiries/Announcements section of the NAFHA forums, or in multiple chapters to let people know about this? As it is only 6 months away, some of us interested that need to travel need to start planning the trip now.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 14th, 2014, 10:11 am

Will you be making a similar post or announcement in the Inquiries/Announcements section of the NAFHA forums, or in multiple chapters to let people know about this? As it is only 6 months away, some of us interested that need to travel need to start planning the trip now.
We will, but I want to give our chapter a chance to speak on it first, in case Chapter Members good ideas to add before announcing it to the national crowd.

Brian Hinds
California Chapter President

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by AndyO'Connor » October 14th, 2014, 10:29 am

fair enough.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 14th, 2014, 1:57 pm

Hats!!! we need HATS!!!! :lol:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by todd battey » October 16th, 2014, 5:25 am

This sounds like a great event. I like the emphasis on data collection and building relationships with key agencies. It shows the long view that our president is taking. Way to go, Brian! :thumb:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by RobertH » October 18th, 2014, 7:39 am

I like the emphasis on data collection and building relationships with key agencies.
Yes, me too. :thumb:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Jacob anderson » October 18th, 2014, 2:32 pm

I wont miss this event, i will be there.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by ricrabt » October 18th, 2014, 3:05 pm

Since the grass will be high and it will be prime rattlesnake season I would recommend snake boots/gators for everyone but especially kids. On that note we have been tossing around the idea of a kids type outing at some point.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 19th, 2014, 7:21 am

been hearing a bit of grumbling (on FB) bout this needing to be announced elsewhere, so folks can make plans, as it's only 6 months away. so.. if we have anything else to bring up (chapter wise) we should get it done.

I think we can/should set the new standard as to how great the National meet can be... guides at the ready...stuff for kids perhaps... a 'jam session' by local member musicians?? We can make this an EPIC event... that other chapters will then try to match... lets do ourselves proud... :thumb:

3 words Brian... del la gate!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 19th, 2014, 8:04 pm

been hearing a bit of grumbling (on FB) bout this needing to be announced elsewhere, so folks can make plans, as it's only 6 months away. so.. if we have anything else to bring up (chapter wise) we should get it done.

I think we can/should set the new standard as to how great the National meet can be... guides at the ready...stuff for kids perhaps... a 'jam session' by local member musicians?? We can make this an EPIC event... that other chapters will then try to match... lets do ourselves proud... :thumb:

3 words Brian... del la gate!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
If they are crumbling about than they already know about it.. ;) :lol:

I will do my best to get to that in the next few days.

Brian

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Brian Hubbs » October 20th, 2014, 10:07 am

I think one of the requirements for attending should be that every participant needs to put 20 vouchered entries into the database after the event. If not, we get to take them to an anthill, cover them with honey, and tie them to a stake. :lol: But seriously, I was surprised at how few people entered stuff from the AZ meeting in Aug. I only saw entries from about 5 people...and MattG and Fundad seemed to have the bulk of them. That's pretty pathetic when you consider that over 50 people went herping that weekend. :(

Of course, maybe the others just haven't gotten around to entering all their data yet... :thumb: We can hope...

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by MarcLinsalata » October 20th, 2014, 10:06 pm

Cool - sounds like a good time - I will be there for sure 8-)

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by ZantiMissKnit » October 21st, 2014, 6:04 am

Fundad wrote:
been hearing a bit of grumbling (on FB) bout this needing to be announced elsewhere, so folks can make plans, as it's only 6 months away. so.. if we have anything else to bring up (chapter wise) we should get it done.

I think we can/should set the new standard as to how great the National meet can be... guides at the ready...stuff for kids perhaps... a 'jam session' by local member musicians?? We can make this an EPIC event... that other chapters will then try to match... lets do ourselves proud... :thumb:

3 words Brian... del la gate!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
If they are crumbling about than they already know about it.. ;) :lol:

I will do my best to get to that in the next few days.

Brian
People can always crash the Cali Chapter forum, like I did.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 28th, 2014, 11:33 am

All those complaints about not posting it on the announcement forum and not one response a week after I post it there.... Doh... :lol:

It seems some people lost interest since we have so many rules.. .. :? :lol:


Fundad

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 28th, 2014, 5:07 pm

I didn't notice it had been posted... :roll: probably have to post it in every chapter... and hey... here's an Idea... get one of the other Officers to do it... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by AndyO'Connor » October 28th, 2014, 6:16 pm

I wouldn't call what I saw on FB as bickering as much as expressed concern for time to plan a trip out of state, and with the first 3 years, some grew accustomed to communication across all chapter forums rather quickly after a time and place had been chosen, with additional details added later. Your speculation about the responses and the rules probably has less to do with the rules themselves as opposed to the delivery of the message, and the implications made towards previous meetings, or attendees having had some negative influence on this one? I suspect that was your intent though, and it will not deter me from joining. See ya all down there!

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 29th, 2014, 6:24 am

I suspect that was your intent though, and it will not deter me from joining. See ya all down there!

That's the spirit Andy.. :thumb:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 29th, 2014, 3:34 pm

might I ask why we're going with this?
3. There will be NO COLLECTING of live herps at any time during the event. No living herps are to be placed in bags or containers at any time, for any reason!

4. No herps are to be held overnight or possessed at any time. This includes any finds that occur before, during, or immediately after the event. We understand that this has been allowed previously, but it will NOT be allowed for our Meeting in California.


seems rather uhhh... stringent?

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Jason Hull » October 29th, 2014, 7:55 pm

why?

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 29th, 2014, 9:17 pm

Because placing Herps in bags/containers is "collecting" according to the letter of the law. Since collecting isn't allowed this will not be allowed at the event.

I am not going to explain what happened at other events that lead to this.

We will be very strict on these rules anyone breaking them will put up for suspension from NAFHA and asked to leave our event.

There is NO valid reason to collect a herp overnight for photo sessions. Leave them alone to go about their business after you find and photo them.

It is really hard for me to understand why this is a problem. I am sure everyone can go one week and one event following a small set of rules. There will be 51 other weeks out of the year where you can do your own thing.

Sincerely
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Jason Hull » October 29th, 2014, 9:38 pm

I don't want to be mis understood here. My "why" was pertaining to Helli's questioning of #3 and4. Group events have always been a turn off for me because of the midnight herp shows that break out .
I like what you've laid down and I'd like to attend because of it.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by MarcLinsalata » October 30th, 2014, 12:00 am

Fundad wrote:Because placing Herps in bags/containers is "collecting" according to the letter of the law. Since collecting isn't allowed this will not be allowed at the event.

I am not going to explain what happened at other events that lead to this.

We will be very strict on these rules anyone breaking them will put up for suspension from NAFHA and asked to leave our event.

There is NO valid reason to collect a herp overnight for photo sessions. Leave them alone to go about their business after you find and photo them.

It is really hard for me to understand why this is a problem. I am sure everyone can go one week and one event following a small set of rules. There will be 51 other weeks out of the year where you can do your own thing.

Sincerely
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :beer: :beer: :thumb: :thumb: :!: :!: :!: :!: 8-)

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 30th, 2014, 7:32 am

I wasn't asking for my sake (I no longer keep anything) or for that matter, the sake of any members from Ca. but rather, on behalf of the visitors to our State.

If you had included something along these lines "I am not going to explain what happened at other events that lead to this."... I wouldn't have asked. Remember... we 'regular' members are not privy to everything that happens and may want to know why certain decisions are made, especially when those decisions seem 'harsh'.

When I was an Officer, I took the 'no collecting at events' very seriously, when hosting Events, like Slash X, but always respected member's right's to legally collect before and after the event... to the point where I would announce when the event began and was 'officially' over.... thereby fulfilling Nafha's no collecting rule, yet still respecting people's rights to legally herp, before and after an event. You may want to clarify that a bit...perhaps by saying no collecting of any sort from 8:00 am on the 10th to 8:00 pm on the 12th, lest visitors to our State take the rules to mean no collecting of any sort, while in Ca.... :shock: If you're going to draw 'lines in the sand'... they need to be very clear lines... ;) jim

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 30th, 2014, 9:31 am

I wasn't asking for my sake (I no longer keep anything) or for that matter, the sake of any members from Ca. but rather, on behalf of the visitors to our State.

If you had included something along these lines "I am not going to explain what happened at other events that lead to this."... I wouldn't have asked. Remember... we 'regular' members are not privy to everything that happens and may want to know why certain decisions are made, especially when those decisions seem 'harsh'.

When I was an Officer, I took the 'no collecting at events' very seriously, when hosting Events, like Slash X, but always respected member's right's to legally collect before and after the event... to the point where I would announce when the event began and was 'officially' over.... thereby fulfilling Nafha's no collecting rule, yet still respecting people's rights to legally herp, before and after an event. You may want to clarify that a bit...perhaps by saying no collecting of any sort from 8:00 am on the 10th to 8:00 pm on the 12th, lest visitors to our State take the rules to mean no collecting of any sort, while in Ca.... :shock: If you're going to draw 'lines in the sand'... they need to be very clear lines... ;) jim
Well Jim The Cali board and I worked on these rules together, sorry you don't agree with the exact wording. It is the wording we choose. I choose not to bring issues out into the public for a number of reasons.

No collecting or holding herps overnight, is "harsh"? Give me a break. We didn't take away anyone's cookies for Goodness sake. We are trying to set an example for all in regards to herping, and bags and containers are not apart of the standard we would like to set..

Please feel free to set up a meeting of baggers and collectors on your own during the other 51 weeks of the year. That would be easy to do through your facebook groups.

Personally, I don't care if this upsets anyone as our board members have spent many hours building bridges with various agencies and we will not have that jeperdized for ANY reason, no matter how much "wailing and gnashing of teeth" there is.

I have one message, If anyone doesn't like the "harshness" of attending a responsible and ethic Event, please DO NOT COME to our California National Event as you will not be welcomed with open arms by our board members and myself.

All of that said, we will be holding nominations and elections for the California Board next month, please feel free to nominate someone else and vote me out of office, if members think I am out of line.

Sincerely
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 30th, 2014, 10:09 am

I was trying to help Brian... you said the reason you didn't post more widely was so you could get 'feedback' from Ca members... but I don't see that any is wanted, or appreciated. You're bashing me for asking a few questions and making a suggestion??? All the connections in the world won't do any good, if you don't have any members left, to collect data :|

And BTW... it's not the IB's job to decide things for the group... it's their job to represent the member's wishes.... according to the bylaws.

You just commented the other day on the lack of response to your Announcement last week, and ventured that it may be because of all the 'new rules'.... and with only 'our way or the highway' offered as to 'why'... you may well be right. It's actually rather insulting to the membership at large, not to provide any rational for decisions made by the IB. :roll:

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 30th, 2014, 10:25 am

I am bashing you Jim? No sir I think not.

The IB is not involved here the California Board Members are. The California Board Members including myself are responsible for these rules.

You are the only California Member questioning it. Why is it hard for you to understand there is no way to "explain" why these rules are in
place without providing info that will ruin our credibility and or start a war among the membership.

I explained that to you the first time, but that wasn't good enough, and by your own admission you are speaking for others, who are these mystery members? All I see above is applause for the rules in place.

It is our Chapter Event and the Bylaws state the Chapter Board Members are responsible for Chapter affairs.

We are all up for election next month, if any Cali member thinks I am being unfair or harsh, than please DO NOT nominate me or vote for me, as I do not want to be
President if I am not trusted or believed in. Seems simple to me And I think its a good time for a little NAFHA direction, I would love to have another member or two nominated that has different values to see what direction the majority of the membership really wants to go.. "


Brian Hinds
Cali Chapter President

PS

This quote below is in my original Event post at the top of this page , I think it "explains why" pretty good.

"The CA Chapter Board Members recognize that these Rules have not been in place at previous National Meetings, and that they may discourage some people from attending. However, our Chapter has spent 8 years building deep relationships with various agencies and groups, and we are not going to risk those relationships for any reason. We hope everyone attending shares our same goal of building strong relationships in support of the conservation our herps need and deserve.
Unfortunately, a tiny handful of people at previous NAFHA National events have caused some serious problems for NAFHA. For the 2015 Meeting, we will do our best to ensure a good time will be had by all, while herping legally and ethically in the eyes of anyone watching."

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by El Garia » October 30th, 2014, 11:05 am

Jason Hull wrote:Group events have always been a turn off for me because of the midnight herp shows that break out .
I like what you've laid down and I'd like to attend because of it.
+1

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 30th, 2014, 11:28 am

Fundad wrote:
PS

This quote below is in my original Event post at the top of this page , I think it "explains why" pretty good.

"The CA Chapter Board Members recognize that these Rules have not been in place at previous National Meetings, and that they may discourage some people from attending. However, our Chapter has spent 8 years building deep relationships with various agencies and groups, and we are not going to risk those relationships for any reason. We hope everyone attending shares our same goal of building strong relationships in support of the conservation our herps need and deserve.
Unfortunately, a tiny handful of people at previous NAFHA National events have caused some serious problems for NAFHA. For the 2015 Meeting, we will do our best to ensure a good time will be had by all, while herping legally and ethically in the eyes of anyone watching."
I somehow missed and/or glossed over this... so retract my statements, and apologize. I never said I don't support these edicts (and in fact do) and was honestly trying to help. I do still think you guys should clarify the 'before' and 'after' the Event a little better, towards avoiding any misunderstandings that may arise :beer: .

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Aaron » October 30th, 2014, 12:12 pm

Obviously if you have to release a herp immediately after capture you cannot make false claims that you are going to release it "later" and you cannot simply hold the herp until right before the event ends only to "recapture" it immediately after the event.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 30th, 2014, 1:44 pm

Since 'special provisions' were made at this year's Event, and it was abused by a few, and reflected poorly upon Nafha, as a whole... no collecting at all 'during' the Ca Event makes good sense.... it's the before and (I believe) 'imeadiatly after' that could prove problematic. Is 'before and after' gauged in time, or in distance from the event... and how long or far away counts?
With expulsion the penalty... I think we need to be very clear on this. I don't really care what the answer is, for as I said... I no longer collect anything but pictures and data... but others may want to know.

Say someone arrives several days before the event, and (with his License) legally collects something... He can't bring it to the event, if he has proof (date stamped photo) that he legally collected it days ago, and makes it known upon arrival that he has a legally collected herp???? Or are we saying "don't even come to Ca, if you have any thoughts on legally collecting, while here?" In a nutshell... when do Nafha's 'rules' start/stop... and when do State laws again apply?

The way to avoid problems, is to account for every possibility beforehand... not after the fact... cause sure as shooting... it's the one thing you didn't clarify that causes problems... and that's something nobody (myself included) wants. This all (IMO) should have been discussed weeks ago, on the MOF.

And again... I'm NOT trying to 'rock the boat' here... I'm trying to help avoid ANY possible problems... and if I have to play 'Devil's Advocate' to do so... so be it. I don't enjoy it, and shouldn't have had to do it, were the 'rules' written better. :?

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by RobertH » October 30th, 2014, 7:22 pm

Like everyone else here, including Jim, I agree with Brian that we need to keep the event squeaky clean, as far as collecting goes.

In terms of making the rules crystal clear:

Since we don't want anyone at the event to have possession of any herps, that would seem to rule out ALL collecting BEFORE the event. Otherwise, we would probably have people collect stuff the day before and then bring it to the event (where else could they put their herps?).

AFTER the event is a bit different. Here we just need to draw a clear line as to when - and where - the event ends. Say, the event ends at 4:00 pm, we don't want people to start collecting stuff at 4:30, especially while still in the same general area, as this would still reflect badly upon the rest of us and NAFHA. So, maybe we could say something like "No collecting until xx pm and after that only if a) you are at least x miles away from the event site and b) you are not returning to the event site.

Regardless, I agree with Fundad that we should discourage people from even coming to the event if they plan on collecting in CA at all. The right kind of people will understand what we are trying to do and have no problem with it, the rest we don't really want to be there anyway.

Just my two cents.

Robert

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 31st, 2014, 5:15 am

I somehow missed and/or glossed over this... so retract my statements, and apologize
:thumb: Thanks Jim. No Worries onward and upward.. apology accepted..

I ll talk to the Cali Board about it after the elections.

It would mean a lot to me if everyone attending the event didn't collect at anytime while traveling too and from the event, but not sure that's enforceable. It would be nice if every single member looked at the big picture of what our group accomplishes and wants to accomplish. Do we want a reputation of a bunch of lawless collectors that make there own rules?

In California it is illegal to hold a herp overnight to release it the next day. Once you collect the animal and bring it in to a captive environment, you can not legally go out and release it the next day. That is to prevent possible pathogens from being spread into wild populations.

To be clear NAFHA does not oppose legal collecting of herps, and infact we have made recommendations that a few sustainable species that are not collectable be added to the collectable list with the CDFW, and we also have recommended a few species stay on the protected list. These events are to promote ethical and responsible herping
alternatives to collecting, observing the herps in the wild, photo and release, followed by entering data into citizen science databases, like HERP.


Thank You everyone for your support.
Brian Hinds
California Chapter President

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 31st, 2014, 8:15 am

I was once helping Chad Lane and Natalie McNear find some lifers down in our area and none of us had any plans to collect anything... till Natalie found an absolutely stunning little Rosy... which she promptly fell head over heels in love with, and ended up taking home. Stuff like that happens... despite best intents.

I think we should encourage visitors to try to focus on digital and data collection, as most of us try to do, but bear in mind that for many folks this trip to Ca may present them with opportunities they may never get again, to augment their personal collection. Officially we (Nafha) recognizes people's right to legally collect, and while we can ask that they don't, we need to recognize that humans are only human, and not perfect.

As for the 'Midnight Herp Parties' Jeff and I had been discussing the possibility of members bringing and setting up a 'local herp exhibit' with already cb or captive herps we already use for herp ed talks...wherein visitors can see bout any herp they might want to see. I think it's a good idea, if workable, and might in fact lessen impact on the environment. Not sure if I'm letting any Cats out of any Bags here... but...kinda what I do... :roll: :lol: :lol:

Whatever 'before/after' youse guys decide on, is fine with me...so long as it's clear... ;) jim

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 31st, 2014, 8:23 am

was once helping Chad Lane and Natalie McNear find some lifers down in our area and none of us had any plans to collect anything... till Natalie found and absolutely stunning little Rosy... which she promptly fell head over heels in love with, and ended up taking home. Stuff like that happens... despite best intents.

I think we should encourage visitors to try to focus on digital and data collection, as most of us try to do, but bear in mind that for many folks this trip to Ca may present them with opportunities they may never get again, to augment their personal collection. Officially we (Nafha) recognizes people's right to legally collect, and while we can ask that they don't, we need to recognize that humans are only human, and not perfect.

As for the 'Midnight Herp Parties' Jeff and I had been discussing the possibility of members bringing and setting up a 'local herp exhibit' with already cb or captive herps we already use for herp ed talks...wherein visitors can see bout any herp they might want to see. I think it's a good idea, if workable, and might in fact lessen impact on the environment. Not sure if I'm letting any Cats out of any Bags here... but...kinda what I do... :roll: :lol: :lol:

Whatever 'before/after' youse guys decide on, is fine with me...so long as it's clear... ;) jim


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If there is anyone that is thinking about attending the event, that can't resist collecting, if a nice herp is found, I am asking them not to attend this event. If the group as a whole whats to have a show and tell, I will resign as president
and you guys can bring all the herps you want and collect all you want, but I don't wont be a part of a show and tell.
For the love of Goodness its one event and one little ol week out of your life that you don't collect something.

I am done with this conversation...

We won't be bringing any CB herps to this event for any reason and we wont be collecting for ANY reason at ANY time. That is very clear to me.

Thank you for your understanding and compliance.

Brian Hinds
California Chapter President

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Chad M. Lane » October 31st, 2014, 11:58 am

While I see both sides, I have to agree with Brian this is CLEARLY a NO collection event and should stay that why. While I think bagging for photos now being allow is a touch excessive it's clearly in the rules of this event and should be followed.

Jim I understand say (me for example even though I no longer keep) found X species I've wanted to keep, I'll just have to come back another time to collect one. It's really not that big of a deal no to collect for a single week.



Cheers,
Chad

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 31st, 2014, 1:14 pm

Chad M. Lane wrote: Jim I understand say (me for example even though I no longer keep) found X species I've wanted to keep, I'll just have to come back another time to collect one. It's really not that big of a deal no to collect for a single week.
Cheers,
Chad
I don't expect any resistance at all from Ca members, regarding collecting... in fact... I expect us to lead by example, and actively promote these 'new standards'. I've always said that Ca is the 'National standard bearer' and where we lead, the Nation will follow.

If someone really REALLY wanted say a gopher, or king, or whatever (that was legal) I (personally) would go so far as to later collect what they wanted and ship it to them (again, if legal) rather than see Nafha get any more black eyes. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and all that. All threats and ultimatums do is foster ill will and spite... the best way to get someone to do something is to tell them they can't... my suggestion would be to persuade, rather than dictate... but that's just me, I guess. :|

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Steve Bledsoe » October 31st, 2014, 1:58 pm

Why not change the venue to a State or National Park or Monument?
That way you don't need any "no collection rules". The state and the feds will take care of that for you.

Just a suggestion :)

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Zach_Lim » October 31st, 2014, 2:36 pm

Actually, Jim, you can catch a whole lot more fruit flies with vinegar....

hahha

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by Fundad » October 31st, 2014, 2:50 pm

Why not change the venue to a State or National Park or Monument?
That way you don't need any "no collection rules". The state and the feds will take care of that for you.

Just a suggestion :)
That has nightmare written all over it, if something went wrong.. Imagine the press. NAFHA Members arrested for collecting on National Monument news at 11.

Not everyone that shows up to the event will be "dedicated" NAFHA members, heck some might not even be members at all, or citizen science data collectors, and those people likely don't care or know about all of our efforts to work with various agencies and good we are doing.


Anyway, there is a dark cloud over this event, and I personally lost my excitement over it.

Maybe its time for me to consider resigning from office, I think have had enough of trying to make some good out of the organization.

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Re: The Cali Chapter NAFHA Event Fri 4-10-15 thru Sun 4-12-1

Post by hellihooks » October 31st, 2014, 2:56 pm

Zach_Lim wrote:Actually, Jim, you can catch a whole lot more fruit flies with vinegar....

hahha
Well... i guess Frisco would be the place to find fruit flies...LOL

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