AC Materials

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MCHerper
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Joined: September 22nd, 2012, 6:13 pm

AC Materials

Post by MCHerper »

Hi Folks,

I had a question about the choices for AC materials for a board line. I don't want to choose any materials that may affect the specimens. Right now I have a neighbor who is throwing away some painted boards, old finished doors, etc. Would the paint or finish from these materials make the specimens sick or otherwise adversely affect them? Thanks for your help!
simus343
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Re: AC Materials

Post by simus343 »

AC works differently for each type of AC material based on temperature, target species, material of AC, and how long the AC has been left undisturbed at location. I don't know where you intent to put the AC or what type of habitat or what target species you are after, but for me wood-based AC in Northwest Florida doesn't yield much except for skinks and glass lizards until the material underneath the AC starts to decay. Also as another note wood seems to work better in my region for snakes in summer and late spring. Metal works better for cooler temperatures, locally at least, and seems to yield results faster when I am after snakes.

Again, different targets, habitats, temperatures, and materials, will affect what you are after.

As far as the paint and varnish/finish it may affect the soil chemistry as it begins to decay, which may or may not affect species in your area - more likely amphibians than reptiles, but some reptiles have the chance to still be affected by the leeching of the material over time. Not to mention the paint and varnish will most likely cause the boards to decay slower, preventing invertebrates, fungi, and bacteria from helping decompose the board and create a micro-climate under the AC.
MCHerper
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Re: AC Materials

Post by MCHerper »

Hi Simus,

I'm after racers, garters, milks, ringnecks, ribbons, etc. in the Northeast. You made a good point about slowing the decomposition and restricting the formation of an appropriate microhabitat. Should I abandon this material or mix it in with plywood and the occasional piece of tin that I can salvage?

Thanks again for your help
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Mark Brown
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Re: AC Materials

Post by Mark Brown »

If you have to choose between one or the other (painted/finished or unfinished) you may as well choose the unfinished. But if you have access to both, grab them all and put them all out if you have places to put them.

I doubt the finish on the boards would have a significant negative impact and if it were to, more than likely animals would simply avoid it, like they tend to do with treated fence boards I put out in my backyard..
simus343
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Re: AC Materials

Post by simus343 »

Indeed. If you can access multiple types and utilize multiple types then do so. As mentioned previously different areas are different. If you have access to painted, finished, unfinished, plywood, metal, and solid (non-transparent) plastic lids you can learn what animals in your site like what the best. As temperatures drop, dark colored AC and metal may work the best, as these will heat up fast during the day to allow reptiles to thermo-regulate. Even during winter, a true full hibernation, where the animals become inactive until temperatures start to remain a constant "warm," does not always occur in reptiles, which will come out on warmer days with a high in the 50s or 60s, to bask in the open sun near a retreat.

For snakes, I would take metal AC and place the sheets near root holes, armadillo burrows, and if my work organization ever does a snake survey, near Gopher Tortoise Burrows. Snakes during winter like, and in some cases need, an area to escape below the frost line. These holes into the ground provide such areas, and the metal on the surface provides further basking opportunities. Also, using last Northwest Florida's Winter as an example, there may be warm spells during winter for which temps will rise into the mid 70s during daytime. During such days, the snakes may leave their underground retreats, and find new shelter beneath the metal. Also, if the AC is placed prior to the need to natural brumation, the snakes may seek refuge there after the first cold front signals the beginning of cooler weather.

I have found most of those (your targets) except milks and ringnecks beneath metal AC. Ringnecks, I have only ever found in rather damp areas where they hunt for small herps and annelids. The closest I have come to milks in my life if Mole Kings exposed in the evenings of Spring and Summer along drift fences, and a single AOR Scarlet King. From what I have heard however, flipping rocks is the best way to find Milk Snakes? Perhaps someone can clarify this for the OP as well as myself.

For a habitat it would be best to set up in an area rather close to water, as this will help increase the odds of seeing some of your species, as some prefer wetland habitats, and others, such as the black racer, do just fine in wetland or upland.

Good luck :) !
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chrish
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Re: AC Materials

Post by chrish »

You could also sand the boards to remove the paint from the surface. That would be the more environmentally friendly at least.
MCHerper
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Re: AC Materials

Post by MCHerper »

Hi guys, thanks for all of the suggestions and tips, they are much appreciated!

Chris, I am looking into getting a belt sander. I was considering sanding the side that I would have face down to help create the moisture seal, but not sanding the side facing up so that it decayed more slowly. Any thoughts on this? Maybe I am overthinking this?

Also, last question for you folks, I believe that I will be able to get some carpet too for a moisture gradient, but I am having trouble locating tin. Is it essential in an AC line in the Northeast to have tin? Anyone have suggestions for where to find it?
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: AC Materials

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

I think you're over thinking a little bit but there's nothing wrong with that.

I remember reading about a salamander study where they used solid, unfinished white oak boards because they didn't want to take a chance with the chemicals from plywood leaching into the animals or the soil. That's the extremely conservative and expensive position.

Most AC in the east (for snakes at least) has a limited lifespan. The materials (even metal) decay quickly and the canopy closes up. That's if no one finds your AC and steals it for scrap or firewood or just cleans it up out of the goodness of their hearts.

There are a couple good books on the subject, Brian Hubbs, Will Bird and Phil Peak, all of whom have been known to frequent these forums.
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chrish
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Re: AC Materials

Post by chrish »

MCHerper wrote:I was considering sanding the side that I would have face down to help create the moisture seal, but not sanding the side facing up so that it decayed more slowly. Any thoughts on this? Maybe I am overthinking this?
It would absorb moisture through the exposed parts anyway. If you are going to sand it, sand it all. Otherwise, just leave it as is.
I believe that I will be able to get some carpet too for a moisture gradient, but I am having trouble locating tin. Is it essential in an AC line in the Northeast to have tin? Anyone have suggestions for where to find it?
I don't know about the northeast in particular, but tin is good in some settings and bad in others. I like stacks of tin which gives the animals an opportunity to thermoregulate by moving between layers. Up there in the frigid NE, that may not be beneficial.

The other thing I was going to suggest is unless you are doing it for a specific scientific purpose (e.g. you need a linear transect) I wouldn't make a AC "line". I would put the AC out in a less predictable pattern so that no one can poach your site. Use a GPS to mark your board locations but scatter them in an irregular array so that they are harder to find. Also makes it harder for a good Samaritan to clean up all of the trash.

Also, make sure you have the right to put out cover on the land you are planning to use. Otherwise, you are littering as well as tresspassing, and could have to face the consequences.
simus343
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Re: AC Materials

Post by simus343 »

Yeah down here in Florida, the state is notorious for being bad about leaving AC, either because it is cleaned up, stolen to be used as AC elsewhere, or to be sold as scrap metal. I leave my AC in areas that are EXTREMELY out of the way, that the chances of finding them are very low unless you are one heck of a dedicated naturalist trying to get to a certain spot. Even then, to find my AC you have to really look, because I cover it thoroughly in a random but complete pattern with leaf litter on the surrounding ground.

At one of my locations I had to spend about half an hour searching for my AC. At first I thought it had been cleaned up or stolen as it had been a year since my last visit to the spot. But, being a year, I had simply forgotten the spots and found every piece haha.

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As far as your painted boards though, if they have white paint that might prove beneficial as winter nears. The paint is not as likely to affect your target snakes as it is a salamander, and even then, that's just speculation - it may not harm amphibians, and if it would be they will avoid it as they are not confined to it. The white color though, it may heat up slower but loses heat slower over night.

As a productivity experiment with no target species, I think it may be interesting to see how different colors / shades of color affect AC productivity for a singular type of AC.

As far as carpet, once it begins to retain moisture it does so extremely well and may eventually become too damp for even a semi-aquatic species such as a Ribbon Snake.
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beemaster
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Re: AC Materials

Post by beemaster »

I just want to add that, here in Massachusetts, I don't get a lot of use out of tin (whether singularly or in layers) and other metal, though on occasion I've found racers, garters, ribbons, northern browns, and ringnecks underneath them. Long flat boards are very productive, as are old doors, tarps (plastic or canvas), long, flat pieces of plastic with some weight to them, carpet (which generally decays until it becomes shredded and useless in about 5 years), and piles of roofing shingles (esp. for ringnecks and milks). That's my personal experience and your mileage may vary.

Old rock walls are also nice, but don't tear them apart. Peek into the cracks as you walk along the wall and you will eventually find interesting critters. As far as metal goes, the most useful AC up here seems to be old car hoods and doors.

Specifically for the OP, I'd like to point out that for certain snakes (like ribbons and milks), you're going to want to lay the AC in a dry spot NEAR a moist area. I mean like a field or clearing that is near a nice swamp, marsh, or mesic woods. Not sure why, but it seems to help a lot. When it's too moist under the board, you won't find much other than centipedes, sow bugs, and the occasional salamander, but if it's too dry you won't find much besides racers in the spring and garters in the summer. As for the painted vs finished, I haven't noticed much of a difference unless /until the paint starts peeling off. Once that happens, I usually don't find much. It's also less environmentally friendly and I would caution against it for that reason alone. I've found plenty of stuff under finished wood, and it's great for longevity, but unfinished and unpainted wood is generally a bit more productive, albeit less durable.

Hopefully this helps some.
simus343
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Re: AC Materials

Post by simus343 »

Okay so something that helped me turn up 7 Eastern Ribbon Snakes this morning. Find a nice lake that is about 90% inaccessible from land with a lot of shore line vegetation. Get to a spot where the lake can be accessed and put some waders on. Go along the shore and just gently tap the vegetation using a snake hook or something, it can be a little annoying if you brush your palm against some black berries haha. Thamnophis sauritus, at least locally for me, seem to prefer cricket frogs and small fish over other foods. They get into shrubs with many small twig-limbs that overhand the water and fish there. If you tap the plant as you walk by they may get stirred up and retreat to lower levels or deeper in towards shore to hide. If you want to catch them, you have to be fast to see them move, as they will be gone fast.
Another note about Thamnophis sauritus is that I have found them in winter, basking with a majority of their body poking out from an above-water crawfish burrow. Just a little something to note when temperatures begin to drop more drastically.

I know this isn't AC related, but it may help you find a target species :beer:.
MCHerper
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Re: AC Materials

Post by MCHerper »

Thanks for your help folks!
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