Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

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WSTREPS
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Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by WSTREPS »

After watching a local newscast about the devastation and horror being inflicted on the Everglades. Its wildlife being eaten into extinction by hordes of monster snakes introduced via an unknown vector from a far away land. The Burmese python. I knew I could not simply look away. I had to overcome my fears join in and hunt down the monsters before its too late.

Without the help of millions of dollars in funding I set out upon my quest. Before leaving I knew I had to arm myself with all the knowledge I could muster. For this I turned to the experts. Men and women who I thought were pure of heart and determined to save us from the python horror no matter how much of other peoples money they have to spend . I started by reading Micheal Dorcas's book, INVASIVE PYTHONS! 37 times cover to cover. I then bookmarked the USGS website for quick reference and links to scientific papers written by a variety of super smart snake experts. I also had timing on my side. In this part of the western hemisphere the environmental factors are prime for a hunt of this nature. Adults are on the move and the young are hatching. This combination of factors greatly increases the species visibility. In turn this creates the illusion that the population is exploding. Many a fool draws this conclusion and some people of despicable nature and poor character who know better seize the opportunity in an attempt to create hysteria. Back to the quest.

Gathering hooks, bags, catch poles, several bibles and a bottle of Gatorade I was away.
Before long I pulled into Everglades city a charming little town known for its rich history in dope smuggling. From there its only a brief ride and into the lair of the giant snakes. I was close and soon I drove onto a sinister swamp lined road. I could only think to myself with no mammals remaining and the giant snakes starving from a lack of prey they would attack me as soon as I got out of the car. The experts said the snakes had killed and eaten practically all of the natural wildlife. I believed them, why would they lie? Suddenly a pair of shining eyes glared at me from the roadside. My heart raced. A giant python! As I got closer I could see it was no python it was a possum? But, how? There are none left. The experts said so. A moment later, another possum, what the FU.. a short while later, you guessed it another F'N possum. It was raining possums. After spotting a few more possums something different scurried off the shoulder of the road .A raccoon. Then another. Still no snakes. Finally a snake sighting, but the unidentified snake was already in the mouth of a bobcat. For an area whose small mammal population was supposedly wiped out the place looked like flipping petting zoo. I drove on.

Suddenly a real live snake appeared . OMG. The car screeched to a stop I leaped out and was swarmed by an estimated 63 thousand mosquitoes and other various biting bugs. The snake before me was in my mind a python, but I had to be sure. I clicked the bookmark on my phone to the USGS website and made careful comparisons using the information provide. I surmised it was not a python at all but what was it ? From my pocket I pulled a copy of Josh Holbrooks field guide and before long I was able to identify the snake. During this stop I encountered three more awful creatures the least repulsive of the three being a scorpion the other two a pair of maladaptive homo sapiens that drove up, stopped , spoke with a lispy voice and pulled away disappearing into the night.

I continued. Another snake once again, I repeated my protocol. Again, it was not a python, but this time a deadly pit viper. I quickly moved on. Time passed, then at the side of the road, a snake. A python!!!!!!!!!!!! For real this time. I jumped from the car. I'm not going to lie, I was scared, really scared, but I had to confront the monster. As I drew closer one thought kept racing thru my mind. The bugs are going to suck every drop of blood out of me. I know it was only milliseconds, but it felt like full seconds and there I was face to face with the monster I had hunted. Van Helsing had found his Dracula. Here the tale ends. For now.

My trek home allowed for time to reflect on the adventure, the things I saw and felt. Swarms of biting bugs, scorpions, deadly pit vipers, super creepy maladaptive homosapiens, alligators, swamps, etc. Certainly the Everglades is one of the most horrid places on earth. Still, I couldn't help but marvel at the great diversity and numbers of wildlife I encountered. How all the species native and introduced seamlessly blended together to create this new world. I also thought to myself how I was mislead by the experts to believe that the pythons were monsters that would lay to waste everything this hostile yet fascinating new environment has to offer. It was very clear the snakes represented nothing more than a new ingredient to the pot luck stew known as the Everglades. It's also clear that the experts are not experts at all but in ways more akin to an ugly version of the wizard from the wizard of oz.

Ernie Eison


Image

There might be gators


Image

yes there are gators


Image
The first non python

Image

One of the horrible creatures of the night

Image

Danger

Image

The monster I came to destroy
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Andy Avram
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Andy Avram »

"And then I woke up, and with it my fairly tale world where natives and non-natives live seamlessly, and where my wishful thinking and long posts trump scientific studies all went up in flames. I think... or maybe it was just the stupid burning again."
luv_the_smellof_musk
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by luv_the_smellof_musk »

We must act now before opposums are gone forever! Perhaps with just a few million more study dollars, we can turn this around before it's too late!
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by justinm »

Ernie, I knew you weren't smart and are delusional. This reinforces it, thank you for casting all doubt from my mind that you're ever going to post something legitimate.

In your world all "field herping" is done by driving around. Any snake that isn't a monster burm proves your point that there aren't large Burms in the Everglades. Others that have posted burms were just planting them there and making things up I guess. That must go for all the scientists with million dollar budgets, I'm sure they're dying laughing at the joke there.
Aaron
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Aaron »

Did they ever release the results of that experiment with the outdoor burms in South Carolina? Or is that study still going on?
Lloyd Heilbrunn
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Lloyd Heilbrunn »

We got a 7-8 footer last night.

And we saw only two mammals.

See how useless this type of small sample size anecdotal "evidence" is?????
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VanAR
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by VanAR »

Aaron wrote:Did they ever release the results of that experiment with the outdoor burms in South Carolina? Or is that study still going on?
It was published in Biological Invasions a few years ago:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 010-9869-6
ncphinsfan13
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by ncphinsfan13 »

WSTREPS wrote:After watching a local newscast about the devastation and horror being inflicted on the Everglades. Its wildlife being eaten into extinction by hordes of monster snakes introduced via an unknown vector from a far away land. The Burmese python. I knew I could not simply look away. I had to overcome my fears join in and hunt down the monsters before its too late.

Without the help of millions of dollars in funding I set out upon my quest. Before leaving I knew I had to arm myself with all the knowledge I could muster. For this I turned to the experts. Men and women who I thought were pure of heart and determined to save us from the python horror no matter how much of other peoples money they have to spend . I started by reading Micheal Dorcas's book, INVASIVE PYTHONS! 37 times cover to cover. I then bookmarked the USGS website for quick reference and links to scientific papers written by a variety of super smart snake experts. I also had timing on my side. In this part of the western hemisphere the environmental factors are prime for a hunt of this nature. Adults are on the move and the young are hatching. This combination of factors greatly increases the species visibility. In turn this creates the illusion that the population is exploding. Many a fool draws this conclusion and some people of despicable nature and poor character who know better seize the opportunity in an attempt to create hysteria. Back to the quest.

Gathering hooks, bags, catch poles, several bibles and a bottle of Gatorade I was away.
Before long I pulled into Everglades city a charming little town known for its rich history in dope smuggling. From there its only a brief ride and into the lair of the giant snakes. I was close and soon I drove onto a sinister swamp lined road. I could only think to myself with no mammals remaining and the giant snakes starving from a lack of prey they would attack me as soon as I got out of the car. The experts said the snakes had killed and eaten practically all of the natural wildlife. I believed them, why would they lie? Suddenly a pair of shining eyes glared at me from the roadside. My heart raced. A giant python! As I got closer I could see it was no python it was a possum? But, how? There are none left. The experts said so. A moment later, another possum, what the FU.. a short while later, you guessed it another F'N possum. It was raining possums. After spotting a few more possums something different scurried off the shoulder of the road .A raccoon. Then another. Still no snakes. Finally a snake sighting, but the unidentified snake was already in the mouth of a bobcat. For an area whose small mammal population was supposedly wiped out the place looked like flipping petting zoo. I drove on.

Suddenly a real live snake appeared . OMG. The car screeched to a stop I leaped out and was swarmed by an estimated 63 thousand mosquitoes and other various biting bugs. The snake before me was in my mind a python, but I had to be sure. I clicked the bookmark on my phone to the USGS website and made careful comparisons using the information provide. I surmised it was not a python at all but what was it ? From my pocket I pulled a copy of Josh Holbrooks field guide and before long I was able to identify the snake. During this stop I encountered three more awful creatures the least repulsive of the three being a scorpion the other two a pair of maladaptive homo sapiens that drove up, stopped , spoke with a lispy voice and pulled away disappearing into the night.

I continued. Another snake once again, I repeated my protocol. Again, it was not a python, but this time a deadly pit viper. I quickly moved on. Time passed, then at the side of the road, a snake. A python!!!!!!!!!!!! For real this time. I jumped from the car. I'm not going to lie, I was scared, really scared, but I had to confront the monster. As I drew closer one thought kept racing thru my mind. The bugs are going to suck every drop of blood out of me. I know it was only milliseconds, but it felt like full seconds and there I was face to face with the monster I had hunted. Van Helsing had found his Dracula. Here the tale ends. For now.

My trek home allowed for time to reflect on the adventure, the things I saw and felt. Swarms of biting bugs, scorpions, deadly pit vipers, super creepy maladaptive homosapiens, alligators, swamps, etc. Certainly the Everglades is one of the most horrid places on earth. Still, I couldn't help but marvel at the great diversity and numbers of wildlife I encountered. How all the species native and introduced seamlessly blended together to create this new world. I also thought to myself how I was mislead by the experts to believe that the pythons were monsters that would lay to waste everything this hostile yet fascinating new environment has to offer. It was very clear the snakes represented nothing more than a new ingredient to the pot luck stew known as the Everglades. It's also clear that the experts are not experts at all but in ways more akin to an ugly version of the wizard from the wizard of oz.

Ernie Eison


Image

There might be gators


Image

yes there are gators


Image
The first non python

Image

One of the horrible creatures of the night

Image

Danger

Image

The monster I came to destroy

Image
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PrimitiveTim
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by PrimitiveTim »

No mammal pics????





This problem sounds like a job for the turtleman! He'll get rid of both racoons and pythons!!! ...and maybe himself :lol:
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

WSTREPS wrote: the snakes represented nothing more than a new ingredient



they just representin... like hip hop dancers, from a distant metropolis.....

noweye un-der-stand....
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WSTREPS
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by WSTREPS »

The usual quips from the low information crowd. I will admit my tale was Tongue-in-cheek, but the biological information was accurate and true. In order to understand and make an informed judgment if someone is truthful and authentically knowledgeable about a subject, knows what they are talking about. You have to understand the subject in detail and know what you are talking about yourself. Leaving your judgment to faith will lead you astray. I was not alone on this trek, I was accompanied by Dr Bryant King. Bryant posted a less colorful account of this trip on his Facebook page. Confirming the sightings. I think we had one discrepancy. If I remember I saw a second raccoon I'm not sure if he did. We also caught a second hatchling Python bivittatus. Lets see............
See how useless this type of small sample size anecdotal "evidence" is?????
The researchers don't think anecdotal "evidence" is useless. Even when it involves small samples. Reading thru their publications you will find anecdotal "evidence" is frequently used to bolster their position. It's only dismissed by them when it goes against their needs. Its a dishonest classroom game they play.

In this instance the usefulness of even this small sample size as it applys to this post. Is given the short distance and travel time. If in fact the Everglades mammal population has been reduced by over 90%. It would be almost statistically impossible for me to have sighted the numbers of small mammals seen. Especially since the majority were opossums the species that is allegedly one of the heaviest hit.
Obviously its clear that in this location a healthy breeding population of pythons existed and clearly there was an abundance of mammals. The python extortionist are not being very truthful.

From here we could into how numbers and data can be and are easily skewed by selective manipulation of the data collecting range. The wheres and whens of how population statics are accumulated.


Ernie, I knew you weren't smart and are delusional. This reinforces it, thank you for casting all doubt from my mind that you're ever going to post something legitimate.In your world all "field herping" is done by driving around. Any snake that isn't a monster burm proves your point that there aren't large Burms in the Everglades. Others that have posted burms were just planting them there and making things up I guess. That must go for all the scientists with million dollar budgets, I'm sure they're dying laughing at the joke there.
Apparently all this SMART person concluded from my post was the point I was trying to prove is that there are no large burms in the Glades. It appears that in his view I tried to do this by posting a picture of a hatchling. Mommy, where do babies come from? Obviously down playing the size of the pythons was not a consideration in my post but since its been brought up.

In a previous post I stated what I felt the average size for the Burmese python was. My estimate was a bit larger then average caught in the Florida population. USGS biologist Bob "narrowfellow" Reed agreed with me and did not dispute my estimate or any of the biological information I presented for that matter. He couldn't. My post are actually very legitimate.

In Mike Dorcas book he says large Burmese pythons CERTAINLY do exceed 20 feet and can approach 25 feet in length. Maybe Dorcas or anyone can present validated proof of a 20 ft. Burmese python (not anecdotal "evidence"). Let alone a 25 ft. Animal. Dorcas states these sizes as facts but he has no facts to back it up. No legitimate snake expert would make this type emphatic statement unless they intentionally wanted to spice things up.

Dorcas says most of the Florida pythons found are mid sized. He then goes on to state that this is most likely because the Florida population is very young is still growing RAPIDLY. A blatant attempt, one of many on his part to promote fear. Maybe this snake expert or any or snake expert could tell us in what large boid species are the majority of animals caught not mid sized regardless of how long the snakes have been there. No matter what species when it comes to large boas and pythons you will always catch far more smallish to mid size animals then large adults. This is not because the large snakes are more illusive then the smaller snakes. Its because there are far fewer of them. Always will be. This does not change over time.

In Se Asia the typical Burmese python caught is about the same size as what they find in Florida. Comparing apples to apples. According to snake expert Micheal Dorcas theory this means the Se Asian population is still young and RAPIDLY growing and in the future you will find more giants. Everyone else says the snakes are being hunted to extinction and you can hardly find big ones anymore.
In your world all "field herping" is done by driving around.
I don't know about that one. I will say I do like to road cruise. Before going I always place a small figurine of USGS biologist Bob Reed on the dash for luck. It's a funny little statue. Whenever someone says funding its head lights up and it drops its pants. This figurine is always inspirational when the roads are not good or cant even be found or when just getting out of town is a hassle.

Ernie Eison

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Something a little closer to home. In fact it is my home or least part of what I see out of my windows. I road cruise this for herps quite a bit. If your not on the road your not field herpin !

Image
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

You are authentically knowledgeable. If I met you in person I would regret my mischief which is a note to self as its a small world. But it is hard to approach any gifts you have to bare because in your other hand you always brash a burning spear.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by justinm »

Ernie,

If you have reel back and explain yourself, if you want to call it that, then I don't think your post had the impact you wanted. Attacking Dorcas isn't doing you any favors either. I'm really not sure what you're trying to accomplish other than telling everyone that we're following the crowd, being misled or hiding from facts? That's your typical diatribe. If you want to attack people who make their living as a biologist take it up with them. Roadcruising for a limited amount of time is at best anecdotal, and proves absolutely nothing. I know two guys who studied the Pythons for years before it was common knowledge. I'm friends with these folks and I believe they're stories over yours any time. As far as those lengths, I can't comment. I've not seen a python that large, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.


To me it sounds like your trip wasn't fruitful and you're butthurt about the lack of preparation. So instead of saying just that, you just attack people because what you found disagrees with their research.
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WSTREPS
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by WSTREPS »

Roadcruising for a limited amount of time is at best anecdotal, and proves absolutely nothing.
That statement is partly true, but not in the way the poster meant. Roadcruising for a limited amount of time only proves absolutely nothing when you see absolutely nothing . Seeing mammals does prove that they are there.

The researchers entaire hystria tactic that the pythons have devoured 90% or more (at least some species) of the Everglades mammals is based on road cruising for a limited amount of time and anecdotal. To belittle the importance of anecdotal short term observation is to also minimize the python researchers' findings.

The following statement from,

Dorcas et al. 2012. Severe Mammal Declines Coincide with Proliferation of Invasive
Burmese Pythons in Everglades National Park.

The authors state: “However, our reliance on indirect estimates
of mammal abundance in ENP is the result of a nearly
complete absence of actual density or population size estimatesbased on rigorous and repeatable field methods.”

What this says in everyday terms is that they have no idea of the distribution,
habitat preferences/requirements, or population densities of mammals in ENP before and after Burmese pythons.

I have spent a bit more then what most would call a "limited" amount of time in the Everglades. I live right around the corner so to speak. I didnt jump on this band wagon. I was there when the first wheel was put on it. Well before any of the python resercher club poped up. At this time for anyone to claim massive declines in the Everglades mammal populations is ludicrous. The Everglades biological diversity has never been higher. What has always been there still is and in some cases increasing numbers plus a lot more.

It's not just the python extortionist playing up the mammal angle, but the hydrology clan as well. I sat thru a wildlife commisioners meeting and listened to the expert testimony given by the members of this contingent. Their approach was the same as team Gcrap. Anecdotal accounts quickly assembled and aimed at the heart not the head. As with the python gang little to nothing they said could be supported by documented facts or much of anything that could be called sound science. Its become a standard game. With billions of dollars in " restoration " funding on deck many people can't keep their panties on just imagining the career possibilities.

To avoid confusion. As I made clear in the past my comments involving biologist and funding in no way are meant to imply that the biologist is getting rich. At no point did I ever say that the biologist were making stacks of cash from this funding. A group of biologist receiving millions of dollars in funding for various projects does not make them millionaires. The focal point / key element's of the funding argument and its role are very clear and very valid. At this juncture for anyone to imply that I'm trying to portray the biologist as getting rich and use that as a means to discredit or distract from the actual point is a person of low level understanding and or dishonest.

I mentioned the Dorcas book previously as it ties in with my post. Im sure he wont mind the plug. Mike Dorcas book Invasive Pythons is dedicated to Skip Snow. Raymond "Skippy " Snow was a non discrete aging, low level biologist until one day he the got the call. The python call. Suddenly this nobody became a biologist star of sorts and instant snake expert.

In the section Whos Who of Python Reserch, Dorcus boast of Skips media notoriety . Braging about the quantity of press attention the pythons have received. He made a point to include what he felt was the most illustrious of the press received, one he is very proud of. This as follows word for word as it appears in his book.

In 2010 Skip Snow was selected by Maxim magazine as one of six people with the "Greatest American Balls " for "Catching the 13 foot alligator swallowing - basterds armed with a pair of tongs, a laundry sack and two of the biggest balls this country has ever seen."

It is without question ridiculous for a legitimate scientist to not only include that type of garbage in his book. To be proud of it is shameful. This book is suppose to be an educational piece of literature but in fact it s a propaganda piece laced with a TFH publication's style. Time and time again when put on the spot about their intentional efforts to promote python hysteria to the media the researchers have blamed the press for misquotes and exaggerations. Clearly at least some like Michael Dorcas revel in the attention. The hype. It's exactly what they want.

Image

Two hatchling Burmese pythons caught while field Herping. Being held out in front of me the snakes appear much larger than they actually were.
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gbin
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by gbin »

WSTREPS wrote:... With billions of dollars in " restoration " funding on deck many people can't keep their panties on just imagining the career possibilities.
Just a total aside, a question for no one in particular:

Why are characters such as Ernie so often misogynistic in addition to their other obvious faults? Is their whole suite of personality issues a reflection of some fundamental problem in the way their parents were/are, or what? I just find it curious.

Oh well, I guess it's time I got back to counting my stacks of money. A wildlife biologist's work is never done (sigh)...

:roll:

Gerry
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

In no way to be presumptive of the OP, but as a general observation, there seems to be a noted correlation between misogyny and lack of successful experience with the catch & release of Panties.
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

Ernie has a point here.


WSTREPS wrote: "Catching the 13 foot alligator swallowing - basterds armed with a pair of tongs, a laundry sack and two of the biggest balls this country has ever seen."

It is without question ridiculous for a legitimate scientist to not only include that type of garbage in his book. To be proud of it is shameful.


If courage and a calm demeanor around dangerous animals is the criteria here then a slender woman in her twenties named Jane Goodall had the biggest balls of all.
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VanAR
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by VanAR »

some people just can't take a joke and will use any excuse to nitpick on their position
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

VanAR wrote:some people just can't take a joke and will use any excuse to nitpick on their position
Im not clear which item is meant here, i dont think it was my lame irrelevant one about the panties though.

If in reference to the big balls of glory article being included in the book, i think it is a counterproductive and outdated paradigm - the whole Wranglin The Big Ones! theme, especially when it infuses itself in what is being presented as serious animal works.

Those kinds of affectations express a hairy fiction that doesnt really do service to the actual animals themselves.

My comment isnt an argument, just a consideration that maybe that was part of it.
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VanAR
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by VanAR »

Kelly Mc wrote: Im not clear which item is meant here, i dont think it was my lame irrelevant one about the panties though.
No, it wasn't. I thought it was pretty funny.

That said, what I say below could just as easily be applied to Gerry's point. I disagree that one's language necessarily defines one's prejudices, and figures of speech are figures of speech. Applying broad prejudicial labels like misogyny to a comparatively minor comment like "panties in a wad", to me, cheapens what misogyny actually is. Like crying wolf, it makes us less likely to be able to identify true prejudice when it occurs. For all of his other failings, calling out Ernie as a misogynist simply because he used a mildly offensive phrase that was until recently a part of widespread lexicon, without any other evidence, is an extreme view. That is just my opinion, and I understand as a white heterosexual male American I have lived in privilege my entire life so I can't possibly understand what it's like, etc.

At some point, there's no reason to reply to people like Ernie. You're just feeding the troll. And hell if there aren't enough f'n trolls around already.
Kelly Mc wrote:If in reference to the big balls of glory article being included in the book, i think it is a counterproductive and outdated paradigm - the whole Wranglin The Big Ones! theme, especially when it infuses itself in what is being presented as serious animal works.

Those kinds of affectations express a hairy fiction that doesnt really do service to the actual animals themselves.

My comment isnt an argument, just a consideration that maybe that was part of it.
I can't speak to the authors' reasons for including this particular anecdote. I agree that it doesn't do the animals any service, but my point is simply that of all the things to get upset over or to use to throw someone under the bus, this is pretty ridiculous. Again, I can't speak to the reasons, but I bet that when Maxim published the anecdote everyone working on the project got a good chuckle over it. Knowing scientists, particularly biologists, particularly herpetologists, and particularly the authors themselves as I do, I would guess that such an anecdote was likely included as much as an inside joke ribbing Snow as it was to actually advertise his "prowess" at catching pythons. It's akin to a certain research group labeling every member as having "special skills" lifted straight from comic book superheroes. Why must scientists be paragons of stuffy professionalism all the time? Isn't half the problem most people have with us the belief that we're stuck in an ivory tower and can't relate with "normal folks"?

But as usual, idiots will always grab these little tidbits they personally find disagreeable and make big deals out of them.

"Lighten up, Francis" (not directed at anyone in particular for fear of offending them :roll: )
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

Im not easily offended. Otherwise it could happen everyday ;)

Idiots and their idiotic ways are more unfortunate for Reptiles, especially large ones. It would just be a relief if scientists didnt fall in with that shtuff too. That is all. Just a hope.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Aaron »

As far as I can remember, this is the first post from the python area that makes a point of noting mammal sightings. I think that was Ernie's main point and I do think it would be interesting to see more posters from that area including that anecdotal data.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by gbin »

VanAR wrote:That said, what I say below could just as easily be applied to Gerry's point. I disagree that one's language necessarily defines one's prejudices, and figures of speech are figures of speech. Applying broad prejudicial labels like misogyny to a comparatively minor comment like "panties in a wad", to me, cheapens what misogyny actually is. Like crying wolf, it makes us less likely to be able to identify true prejudice when it occurs. For all of his other failings, calling out Ernie as a misogynist simply because he used a mildly offensive phrase that was until recently a part of widespread lexicon, without any other evidence, is an extreme view. That is just my opinion, and I understand as a white heterosexual male American I have lived in privilege my entire life so I can't possibly understand what it's like, etc.
You think maybe Ernie didn't mean it, eh? I'm afraid I disagree, Van. He's not a youngster simply repeating what he's often heard elsewhere, and he's not an incapable writer, either. He might not have put a lot of thought behind exactly what he wrote, but his intent was clear - to speak derogatorily of the people he was targeting - and I can't see any way to explain how the comment about panties satisfied his intent other than that in his mind to be like a woman is a bad thing.

A bigoted comment doesn't simply become an acceptable figure of speech because it's common. And when it comes to assessing whether someone who uses such a comment is in fact bigoted, I'm inclined to think that is actually the case, especially when coming from someone such as Ernie, who as I mentioned regularly displays a whole suite of personality issues on these message boards. Indeed, my point was that this particular form of bigotry seems inordinately common in guys like Ernie, which I do indeed find curious.

And/or you think maybe I was too harsh on him? I don't agree there, either. First, so far as I'm aware I used the most accurate language I could to describe what I was seeing. I suppose it is unfortunate that a fellow who merely thinks he's putting other guys down by comparing them to women and a fellow who actually goes so far as to commit violence against women (rather opposite ends of the same spectrum, I reckon) both meet the definition of misogynistic, but that's the English language for you. Feel free to coin a new term for someone who is only mildly instead of severely misogynistic, and I promise you that if I like it I'll use it henceforth. ;) Second, it's not as if I went on an extended rant about it. I pointed it out and mentioned my curiosity about how it often appears in guys with a lot of issues, and that was it. Third, I have to think that you believe, as I do, that Ernie really deserves much more harsh treatment than he gets for the garbage he regularly spews on these message boards, principally targeting wildlife scientists and managers. As you pointed out, though, he's really not worth and wouldn't benefit from the effort.

Finally, although I'm not at all sure what you mean by "true" prejudice - it sounds to me as if you mean "severe" prejudice, but maybe not - bigoted comments aimed at this or that group of people certainly merit being identified as such. And one doesn't have to be a member of the group in question in order to recognize such comments or respond to them with criticism. Silent disapproval is often viewed as tacit approval - especially by people misbehaving.

I agree with you, by the way, about the fact that scientists should be allowed to have a bit of fun and even mix it up outside of bona fide scientific publications. Maybe even within such, if it's done with a bit of finesse. One of the reasons I enjoy participating so openly and honestly (besides the fact that it's my nature) here is the fact that it demonstrates to anyone looking that I am "normal folk" as well as a scientist.

Gerry
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

Science cant keep up with the abundance of reality. So scientists are Super Heroes in a way, focusing honed minds and tools in hot pursuit. I find it appropriate to think of scientists as evolved super heroes because I can think of nothing more important to our world, than understanding it. Nothing.

Intelligent humor and warmth only makes smart stuff smarter, closer, bigger. The thing about inside jokes and getting a chuckle is kind of moot, because it wasnt private, and it reflected the usual Conquer The Man Eater concept. Perhaps its inclusion was unconscious. Many things are.

But when the media gets a hold of a freak accident involving a python, or when a family's backyard pond is visited by an alligator and he eats Mr Peepers, nobody is laughing.

It may be worth a deliberate effort to be aware of basal impulses even when they are fun and exciting, and even natural, to indulge.

There is a temptation even in our own genre to set reptiles in an alien apartness from other animals though they share more likenesses with other chordates than disparities. One practical difference is that reptiles are easier to outsmart and keep a few steps ahead of than mammals are, in field or zoo handling situ. They are generally easier to restrain, and contain. Treating them like they are Special Godzillas re enforces a mythology that would be best diffused.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by luv_the_smellof_musk »

The latest "research" shows the pythons will reach the North Pole before Christmas, endangering all of Santa's helpers and threatens to cancel the holiday season. The cancellation of Christmas could cost billions of dollars in economic damage as Santa would be unable to purchase and deliver the toys. This news comes on the heels of a 20+ foot, record-breaking boa that was reported by an animal control officer in New Jersey. The boa was estimated to swim at over 20mph, may be pregnant, and is likely to overwinter in a residential basement. It is likely the boa will give rise to a feral population thousands of miles north of its known range. Millions of tax payer dollars will be needed to save Santa's workshop. It is also believed the pythons are eating 1984 buicks in Florida based on rock solid, scientific evidence. The researchers drove around one day and saw less buicks on the road and also noticed more pythons around the same time, thus providing a causal link.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by jonathan »

Musk, what's the point there? Why did you spend any time writing that?
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by luv_the_smellof_musk »

it made me laugh uncontrollably
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

A double account is like a secret six pack for someone who cant hold their Zima.



Real name guy----> :beer: <----Fake name guy
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by BDSkinner »

Wasn't the study showing small mammal decline based off the abundance of road kill? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing


-Brad
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by justinm »

luv_the_smellof_musk wrote:The latest "research" shows the pythons will reach the North Pole before Christmas, endangering all of Santa's helpers and threatens to cancel the holiday season. The cancellation of Christmas could cost billions of dollars in economic damage as Santa would be unable to purchase and deliver the toys. This news comes on the heels of a 20+ foot, record-breaking boa that was reported by an animal control officer in New Jersey. The boa was estimated to swim at over 20mph, may be pregnant, and is likely to overwinter in a residential basement. It is likely the boa will give rise to a feral population thousands of miles north of its known range. Millions of tax payer dollars will be needed to save Santa's workshop. It is also believed the pythons are eating 1984 buicks in Florida based on rock solid, scientific evidence. The researchers drove around one day and saw less buicks on the road and also noticed more pythons around the same time, thus providing a causal link.

If you've read more than a local headline or a even a scientific research paper posted in a respected journal I would eat a Buick...

WRSTREPS,

I've got no dog in this fight, but we all know the Pythons have been around for many years and only recently did the media find a new toy to scare the public with. No disagreement there. What I do disagree with is that you're literally quoting Maxim magazine? I know I don't buy it, wear Axe cologne, or watch R rated movies to see boobs. So I'm not sure why you're taking that publication so seriously. I think that you're a local with an axe to grind. Let it be, already. You're starting to sound nuts, and I've found that if you're just ragging on people it's the wrong kind of attention to get.

Justin Michels
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by justinm »

double post...
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

Hi Ernie,

What in your mind, is the solution to the python "problem"? I'm genuinely curious how you would have liked to see this play out. Should science and society ignore an introduced predator in a highly threatened ecosystem?

What could or should have been done differently? I know you have issues with the study on mammal declines and presumably with the ecological distribution model. Are there other aspects of the science that you disagree with?

Thanks.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Bryan Hamilton wrote:What could or should have been done differently?
Make money off them, like they do with introduced fish?
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by PrimitiveTim »

chris_mcmartin wrote:
Bryan Hamilton wrote:What could or should have been done differently?
Make money off them, like they do with introduced fish?
Guided python hunts? How does that work in a park where hunting is not allowed? I'd imagine there would be low success rates and it would become unpopular after initial hype when hunters also realize not all of them are 10'+. Table fare? Who is going to eat a snake? Maybe it would be popular in the Asian markets. I'd imagine that it would be far less popular than gator meat. I can see the skins becoming popular though.

How many are caught in the ENP and are they worth enough to support a person that is putting in time to catch and process them? I don't see anyone getting rich off of that. It would be a lot of work. Do we know of anyone making money off of pythons? If it were worth it I'm sure someone would be doing that.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

Yeah Tim I agree.

There isn't going to be some exotic change of attitude from chicken and beef to python.

Even cultured bison didn't take the place of beef even though its so lean and rustically appetizing like yummy wildwest food.

The big time for skins and fur was in the 50's, there are so many synthetic materials choices cheap for China to produce for us now.

Kanye n' Kim and their baby could all wear Burm outfits and the skin would be popular for a very short while, or maybe not I don't think ppl really like those guys but my point is I don't think there is any kind of market. People just don't go in for that as much today as they did back in Lucy and Ricky times.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by PrimitiveTim »

Kelly there the skins would be useful for belts, bags, boots, watch bands, and even for backing primitive bows. I'm sure craftsmen that deal with skins could find other uses as well. That's just a few I could think of.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by chris_mcmartin »

How 'bout this: open season on pythons in the Everglades, including ENP.

Pay a bounty of $20* per whole python brought in, living or dead. No license or other fee system required; if you see a python and can safely bring it in, you can do so.

The catch: $100 (or more) fine if the snake you bring in ISN'T a python. That should reduce the bycatch by people who are enthusiastic, but may not be too good at snake ID.


*$20 isn't hard and fast. The bounty needs to be set such that it is enough to make it worth someone's while, but not as much as it would cost to bring in a "ringer" python bought from a pet store/dealer and claim the bounty. Also, the bounty program should not amount to more than it would cost other means of eradication--more difficult to ascertain and the bounty amount may necessarily fluctuate from year to year, depending on the annual haul.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by PrimitiveTim »

chris_mcmartin wrote:How 'bout this: open season on pythons in the Everglades, including ENP.

Pay a bounty of $20* per whole python brought in, living or dead. No license or other fee system required; if you see a python and can safely bring it in, you can do so.

The catch: $100 (or more) fine if the snake you bring in ISN'T a python. That should reduce the bycatch by people who are enthusiastic, but may not be too good at snake ID.


*$20 isn't hard and fast. The bounty needs to be set such that it is enough to make it worth someone's while, but not as much as it would cost to bring in a "ringer" python bought from a pet store/dealer and claim the bounty. Also, the bounty program should not amount to more than it would cost other means of eradication--more difficult to ascertain and the bounty amount may necessarily fluctuate from year to year, depending on the annual haul.

I think it's funny how many commenters on this thread are not Floridian. Regardless, you can't have a bunch of ignorant people killing every snake they see. To deignorize (yes I just made that word up) people would be expensive! People that like to kill snakes don't care what they're killing and they will kill any snake in their path. A 4 foot corn snake looks like an 7 foot python to them. Even if you had to pass a snake identifying test there's still no guarantee that these people running rampant in the everglades would only harvest pythons. That's like releasing mongooses to control rat populations in sugar cane fields. They don't just kill rats...
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by chris_mcmartin »

PrimitiveTim wrote:Even if you had to pass a snake identifying test there's still no guarantee that these people running rampant in the everglades would only harvest pythons.

Understood. See this clause from my proposal:
The catch: $100 (or more) fine if the snake you bring in ISN'T a python. That should reduce the bycatch by people who are enthusiastic, but may not be too good at snake ID.
Money talks.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by justinm »

PrimitiveTim wrote:
I think it's funny how many commenters on this thread are not Floridian. Regardless, you can't have a bunch of ignorant people killing every snake they see.
I'm not sure if this is just xenophobic, or ignorant on your own part? So I can't understand the effect of an invasive species unless I live in an imagined boundary called Florida? By living in this boundary do you get this knowledge through osmosis? I sure wish I could be so smart as the folks in Florida... Then I could really and truly understand how ecosystems work.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by PrimitiveTim »

justinm wrote:
PrimitiveTim wrote:
I think it's funny how many commenters on this thread are not Floridian. Regardless, you can't have a bunch of ignorant people killing every snake they see.
So I can't understand the effect of an invasive species unless I live in an imagined boundary called Florida?
Yeah... you read into that a little deeper than it was meant. It doesn't mean you can't understand the situation. I just thought it was funny. No need to say the "i" and "x" word :shock:
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

In Utah there is $50 bounty on coyotes. I think that is a large enough sum to motivate people and it does knock back the coyote population.

However Utah's bounty program on coyotes probably does not meet its intended goal: to increase mule deer abundance by reducing fawn predation.

Most work on invasive species is focused on preventing the spread of those species and protecting high value resources. Landscape scale control is often a lost cause.

I doubt a bounty program could impact python abundance but I can see a lot of value beyond that. Assuming folks could learn to identify pythons, learn some basic snake identification, and learn about the impact of pythons on the ecosystem, would the educational value alone be worth it?
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by Kelly Mc »

I love Florida. I would go back to live there in a heartbeat.

Couldnt participate in a bounty. Perhaps at one time it was possible but not anymore.

When we get rats the basement at work im the one that has to take care of it. It has to be done as they pose even a firehazard with their destruction. But I cant do it without experiencing a jarring, lousy feeling. I used to, but not any more.

I wonder if any one else has noticed that penetrability, as a by product of getting older
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by WSTREPS »

I started this thread by sharing an interesting night of field Herping centered around the capture of Burmese pythons (Python bivittatus). Typically the thread became side tracked at times by the usual suspect with nothing of substance to add. I have no problem at all with personal attacks against me by the low information crowd. Go for it all you want, but at least try to mix the silliness in with something meaningful about the actual topic if you can.

Previously I included some notes about some of the information sourced and why the information is to be questioned. A bit more about that,

"Given the placement of the python's eyes it could see in both directions down the highway. The snake had stopped to look both ways before crossing! I do not think that even a major road would, over time, present a barrier to such cautious and patient animals." Mike Dorcus / John D Wilson Invasive Pythons Ecology of an introduced predator


" Most of the information we have is anecdotal or based on animals kept in captivity. "
Mike Dorcus / John D Wilson Invasive Pythons Ecology of an introduced predator

This lack of research did not slow down these guys one bit. With almost nothing in the way of scientifically gathered data, this crew went on a frenzied attack of publishing Climate maps to illustrate the parts of the US that p. molurus not P. bivittatus could invade, risk assessments and all manor publication's and press fodder spreading the word about the devastation the pythons could / were / are causing in the Florida Everglades. There is nothing unscientific or dishonest about taking a guess. The line is crossed when a guess is disguised as fact. The bottom line truth is ,

“With few exceptions you would get that
impression from the media coverage that hoards of rampaging
snakes were vacuuming up mammals in the Everglades. We
don’t know that. . . .” Dr. Frank Mazzotti

Research and more research. The python club Bloviator members battle cry. With all the kings horses and all the kings men doing research on the Burmese python (Python bivittatus). To date what has been the most important discovery? What has this feeding frenzy of overnight Burmese python experts uncovered thus far? That pythons eat a variety of warm blooded prey, they lay eggs, that they crawl around and act like typical tropical snakes. There are no important secrets about these animals that will be uncovered by the same round and round "research projects". Projects that prove what is already known.

It is certainly possible that some of this research will lead to answers involving biological trivia questions as it relates to practical application, but not much else. The snake experts certainly make it sound like their doing important research work, making key discoveries. Push the promotion of python anxiety among the low information crowd, keep the ball rolling. Pontificate endlessly about the importance of this research and how its furthering our knowledge on this grey matter issue but where are the results ?

The biologist have already admitted the introduced population in Florida can not be eradicated. There's nothing they can do about it. You can cull the snakes from the edges and that's about it. History has shown that 20 years down the line, millions upon millions of dollars in wasted funds, will only result in biologist shrugging their shoulders and saying the place is still loaded with snakes , we don't have any answers yet but we're making great progress in our knowledge , with more research........

The fact of the matter is what you see is what you get. Its not as complicated as some would have you think. The necessary biology to protect and or capture these animals is known. If you want them dead . Collect to your hearts content . You wont wipe them out but you wont find them like you used to. If want to preserve them. Leave them alone. To simple a strategy ? To date its been proven effective when it comes to these animals. No amount of repetitive research will uncover a silver bullet to solving any of the important biological issues surrounding these animals . At least not in anyone now livings lifetime. The pythons will still be in the glades 100 years from now or at least hopefully they will be. Think about that last line.

If these creatures were not front page news, thanks to the USGS team of fear mongers, their activist friends and media links. If the pythons did offer the career opportunities and chances to put one's self in the spotlight. None of these people would be doing anything with them.

This statement is rom the yet another team of Burmese python researchers ,

" Leverage year one results to attract additional funding for longer term research. "


Ernie Eison
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by luv_the_smellof_musk »

Ernie,

The question I have is what problem are the researchers trying to solve? As far as I know, there isn't a shred of proof the pythons have caused any problems at all. So just keep doing research for the sake of doing research all the while other species are headed toward extinction?
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by gbin »

WSTREPS wrote:I started this thread by sharing an interesting night of field Herping centered around the capture of Burmese pythons (Python bivittatus). Typically the thread became side tracked at times by the usual suspect with nothing of substance to add. I have no problem at all with personal attacks against me by the low information crowd. Go for it all you want, but at least try to mix the silliness in with something meaningful about the actual topic if you can.
Typical. Post for the clear purpose of spewing a bunch of venom - most definitely including attacks on specific persons and their profession in general - and then when rightly criticized for it, act the injured party. Poor Ernie... :roll:

Gerry
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by jonathan »

luv_the_smellof_musk wrote:The question I have is what problem are the researchers trying to solve? As far as I know, there isn't a shred of proof the pythons have caused any problems at all. So just keep doing research for the sake of doing research all the while other species are headed toward extinction?
Musk - the question I have for you is what would constitute "proof" of a problem in your mind? Can you give an example of a research study that you would call "proof"?

Also, why are such a high percentage of your posts on this forum just responses backing up Ernie?
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by krisbell »

I'm not a regular poster on this site so dont know the history of the OP or others that have commented here but it doesnt seem to me that what Ernie has said justifies some of the rebuttals he has received. Surely no-one can argue that currently there is not a lot of useful, conclusive research out there with meaningful sample sizes etc. Furthermore, it is surely true that the press coverage and funding on pythons is outrageously disproportionate to the threat they pose? Compare a feral cat that will likely kill a dozen or so prey items a night, with a python that may make 1 or 2 kills a week (during the warmer months). Admittedly this is a very crude and narrow comparison but I think still holds up the more detail you get into.

However, where I would disagree with the OP is firstly that a sighting of a few mammals in a night of roadcruising means the place is 'raining possums' - and even if it did, what is more important is how current abundance compares to pre-python abundance. Seeing 20 possums in a night may represent a disastrous drop in population if you would typically see 100 before pythons were established.

Secondly, just because we havent come up with any really effective answers yet does not mean further research is wasted or pointless. My own background is in cane toad research in Australia, where colossal amounts of money, research and effort go into attempting to slow or stop the spread of this animal across the country. Has all this research and money (not to mention the plethora of activist 'toad busting' groups) helped so far with the spread? Not yet, but that isn't a good reason to down tools and accept defeat. We have learnt about the limits of their tolerance, the typical species that get hit hardest because of the toad and measures such as training certain mammals that can be effective in reducing the short term impact. We have learnt what habitat features the toads love and prosper in and what habitat features they struggle with. We have learnt what life stage is easiest and most effective to target, how sound traps, chemical mechanisms and host-specific parasites may be used. All this research will eventually lead to effective localized measures to control the species (which may be crucial in saving endangered species with highly restrictive distributions) and even if it is too late for the cane toad in Australia, the research may well just help another country or region halt or prevent the spread of a new invasive species in the future.
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by gbin »

krisbell wrote:... just because we havent come up with any really effective answers yet does not mean further research is wasted or pointless. My own background is in cane toad research in Australia, where colossal amounts of money, research and effort go into attempting to slow or stop the spread of this animal across the country. Has all this research and money (not to mention the plethora of activist 'toad busting' groups) helped so far with the spread? Not yet, but that isn't a good reason to down tools and accept defeat. We have learnt about the limits of their tolerance, the typical species that get hit hardest because of the toad and measures such as training certain mammals that can be effective in reducing the short term impact. We have learnt what habitat features the toads love and prosper in and what habitat features they struggle with. We have learnt what life stage is easiest and most effective to target, how sound traps, chemical mechanisms and host-specific parasites may be used. All this research will eventually lead to effective localized measures to control the species (which may be crucial in saving endangered species with highly restrictive distributions) and even if it is too late for the cane toad in Australia, the research may well just help another country or region halt or prevent the spread of a new invasive species in the future.
A solid, well thought out and laid out comment. :thumb: It won't help in the slightest with folks like Ernie, of course, but perhaps it will get through to some who would otherwise find his nonsense persuasive.

So what do you drive? A Bentley? Maybe a Rolls-Royce? I've had my Porsche almost a year now, and have been thinking of dumping it in favor of a Mercedes-Benz. People just don't understand how hard it is for wildlife biologists to find ways to spend all the money they make (sigh)... :(

Gerry
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Re: Everglades monster constrictor hunt. Doing my part.

Post by WSTREPS »

Ernie,

What in your mind, is the solution to the python "problem"? I'm genuinely curious how you would have liked to see this play out. Should science and society ignore an introduced predator in a highly threatened ecosystem?

What could or should have been done differently? I know you have issues with the study on mammal declines and presumably with the ecological distribution model. Are there other aspects of the science that you disagree with?
Is the Everglades really a highly threatened ecosystem? It is an ecosystem that has been drained, commercially developed, has had 4 times the amount of agent orange dumped on it as was used in Viet Nam, been used as Florida's drainage ditch for over a hundred years, has had hundreds of species introduced into it and on and on. Today the biological diversity in the Everglades is at an all time high. The Everglades is teaming with life native and introduced and now they want to thru the magic of billions of dollars in funding tear into it and "restore" it.

Science I Disagree with? The findings of the actual science agrees with me. Its the researchers who disagree with their own findings. They ignore the facts presented by their own data. Not only have I used their collected data to prove this point, but I went as far as to weigh all the numbers in hysterias favor. It still plays out to this point,

The introduced Burmese python is an animal that is filling an available niche in a sub tropical environment that it is perfectly suited to. They are fitting in with the Florida environment in the exact same way as they do in their natural range. Every bit of gathered data points to this. Not a single python researcher has been able to dispute any of the biological points I've made with facts / collected data to suggest let alone prove otherwise. Thus far the only major problems associated with the pythons have been problems manufactured out of the promotion of unwarranted anxiety and speculation. The hard numbers and accumulated data to this point indicate that as a wide ranging major environmental problem these snakes are almost as troubling as a cloudy day. Everything else has been just talk.

The solution if one is needed is removing enough snakes to damage the population. Easier said then done. I am stating the painfully obvious. Everybody knows this. What everybody doesn't know is ,

When it comes to catching reptiles in mass numbers. Most have no clue. I've seen up close what is possible. I'm not talking about finding 30 water snakes on a Saturday afternoon . I'm talking locating hundreds or thousands of a target species in a few days under all kinds conditions. This includes animals that peer reviewed studies claim are endangered, declining, whatever. Native to the US and exotic. Wood turtles, timber rattlesnakes, veiled chameleons, tegus etc. Sometimes there are keys as to how and when certain turtles, lizards, some snakes can be found in mass in a short period of time. The commercial trade has been very good, too good at times at figuring out ecology side. Finding the keys to rapid mass collection. I'm not looking to hijack my own thread I'm stating this as it relates to the subject. The Burmese python is not some unknown creature. It has been one of the worlds most collected species for many decades. Generations of professional snake hunters have gone out and collected pythons from cultivated and natural habitats. At this point literally millions of pythons have been caught.You can lecture about the importance of studying population density and how it varies according to the topography of the landscape, movements. There are no secrets to catching these snakes. If there was a time and place or a certain set of biological circumstances that would allow for the capture of these animals in massive numbers in a short period of time, the commercial hunters would have already found it. The word be out.

All the research to this point has been worthless if the goal is to reduce the numbers of theses animals in a meaningful way. The python researchers have been very unproductive in coming up with anything useful but they have certainly put out a lot of material.

The big time for skins and fur was in the 50's, there are so many synthetic materials choices cheap for China to produce for us now.

Kanye n' Kim and their baby could all wear Burm outfits and the skin would be popular for a very short while, or maybe not I don't think ppl really like those guys but my point is I don't think there is any kind of market. People just don't go in for that as much today as they did back in Lucy and Ricky times.

Kering and IUCN Boa & Python Specialist Group announce first report on captive breeding

"Python skins are traded primarily to meet demands from the fashion industry to make luxury leather products, with Italy, Germany and France being the biggest importers. Skins are also used for traditional Chinese musical instruments. Indonesia, Malaysia and Viet Nam are the main source of python skins, with China, Thailand and Viet Nam all producing python skins through farming.

Southeast Asia’s pythons, the Reticulated Python (Python reticulatus) and the Burmese Python (Python bivittatus) - which are two of the world’s largest snakes - have been harvested from the wild for their skins for almost eight decades. Within the last 20 years, the scale of trade in python skins has increased significantly with nearly 500,000 skins exported from Southeast Asian countries per year. Continued increase in demand is likely to put significant pressure on wild stocks, according to the study."
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