Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

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ReptileLover89
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Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

Hi
I am a newer herper, about 2 years of expierence, but I have had horrible luck. I am not sure what I do wrong. I have gone through reservoirs and forest preserves as well as up empty roads and usually end up empty handed. I have been trying to find what I do wrong. Maybe someone could help me.
First off, what is the best temp for snakes? I live in north IL. This will help a ton on when is best to go.
Also, are forest preserves and stuff not good? I just can't seem to find good spots. I am not asking anyone to give away their area, just a little insight on ideas.
It gets really aggravating because I go often and don't find anything. (but I still love it)
I am NOT capturing, just catch and release.
Thanks
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Soopaman
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Soopaman »

General advice: flip boards and debris anytime in April and October. Flip warm days March, cool days in May. Cruise evenings and mornings 75-85°F.

Hike when you feel like walking around and don't care about seeing stuff, because for the most part it's a pretty unproductive method of locating snakes, at least in decent numbers.
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Andy Avram
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Andy Avram »

Keep in mind Soopaman is from Texas and flipping in N. Illinois in March isn't going to be very productive and cool days in May just might be too cool.

Just walking around in forests isn't going to be great to find snakes, maybe the occasional garter or Black Rat Snake (if they are even local to your area?). Find fields and edge habitat (edge being where fields/woods come together) and then look for things to flip - rocks, logs, boards, carpet, etc... Look for rocky hillsides to flip rocks, just remember that everything you flip over you should put back exactly how you found it. At our latitude flipping can be productive from late April through early September. In the heat of summer I flip plywood boards an hour or so before evening for best results. Metal will work best in spring and fall before things get too hot.

Also, try walking streams and rivers and looking under rocks along the edge. A good way to find Queen and Water Snakes, maybe others.

Really if you aren't actively searching under things and poking around IN the habitat you aren't going to find many snakes.

As for road-cruising, if it is anything like NE Ohio is will suck in your area, but I will let someone with local experience answer that one.
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muskiemagnet
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by muskiemagnet »

andy hit it on the head with soopaman. we are not in texas. best thing will be to learn preferred/suitable habitat for the species you seek. use google. it may not help at first but once you have been to an area you will begin to "see". as far as temps go, have fun with that. it is basically species specific. sunny days in early spring are awesome but soon that will change. for the rest of the summer, early mornings and late afternoons will be best. overcast days are awesome.

really it comes down to go out and learn. don't get discouraged when you strike out. you may be in the right place but the timing may be off. once you start scoring, you will learn at a quicker pace. the fun part for me is when i get thrown for a loop. point being is that you will never stop learning.

-ben
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beemaster
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by beemaster »

Andy Avram wrote:Find fields and edge habitat (edge being where fields/woods come together) and then look for things to flip - rocks, logs, boards, carpet, etc... Look for rocky hillsides to flip rocks...
Bolded for truth. Always find the ecotone. Not JUST where fields and woods come together (though that's the most productive for most of my targets this time of year), but where ANY two or more habitat types converge. On a similar note, homogenous sites aren't as productive as those with lots of diversity in soil type and plant communities.
Andy Avram wrote:...just remember that everything you flip over you should put back exactly how you found it.
This right here is the most important thing of all. Never flip something you can't flip back. Never move anything if you can't re-seat it into the same position you found it. Flip responsibly.

Good luck.
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by chris_mcmartin »

muskiemagnet wrote:andy hit it on the head with soopaman. we are not in texas.
...except in Texas, the season starts in January and ends never... 8-)

It really depends on the particular year and how the temps/rainfall have been. For example, though generally late April to early May is optimal in my part of Kansas, the "peak" of the spring season in 2012 was apparently mid-March (a full six weeks early!). There were still herps to be found during the traditional time period, but it wasn't as easy.

I've also herped other places in January when people said, "Can't you come out later?" (I couldn't because I was doing incidental herping on business trips)...those people accompanied me and were surprised we found stuff.

I think justinm might be a good contact for finding things when the majority think it's too hot/cold/dry/wet. I consider it a fun challenge to find herps when the conventional wisdom says you can't/won't.*

I'd echo what's already been said: ecotone/edge habitat, and look under stuff. Don't overlook rocks or artificial cover you think are too small...I've found two ringnecks under a rock not much bigger than my hand.



*when it's somewhere I live or otherwise have plenty of time to explore.
Coluber Constrictor
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Coluber Constrictor »

Regarding temps, around 70's F is when I see the most snakes, but I have found them anywhere from the 50s-90s depending on the time of day/year, search method, etc. This is on the Gulf Coast-not sure how things are in northern IL.

Agree 100% with Andy Avram and others-edge habitat is key.
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

Thanks for all the help guys. Are there any herpers in my area that have any ideas for where. Is the best to just drive around and find habitat or what? I never knew that just walking around isn't very productive in my area, so thanks a ton for that. I love leasrning so any other advice for looking for herps is welcome and appreciated. Thanks
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Mark Brown
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Mark Brown »

One technique that I discovered many years ago when I was doing work for a utility company:

When you're travelling backroads looking for abandoned building, since these are among the very best places to find herps, keep an eye on the powerline running alongside the road. Every location where you see a tap (single line) leading away from the powerline into the boonies, there is or used to be a meter at the end of the tap, which likely means there is or used to be a building. If you see that the line heading into the boonies is disconnected from the main line (either a fuse hanging out at an angle or a loose jumper), there's a very good chance that whatever building the tap went to is unoccupied or abandoned. If it's in suitable habitat and accessible, follow the line to its end and see what's there - I've found many, many abandoned buildings (and the tin piles and other cover that usually go with them) using this method.

Occasionally you can see where there used to be a line going into the woods but there is no longer.....indicated by extra bracketry on the pole, etc. This usually means that whatever is back there has been abandoned for a very long time......even better!
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Mark Brown wrote:Occasionally you can see where there used to be a line going into the woods but there is no longer.....indicated by extra bracketry on the pole, etc. This usually means that whatever is back there has been abandoned for a very long time......even better!

This is very interesting; had never thought of checking the power lines. Another similar technique is to look at old topographical maps (many were produced about 50 years ago) for buildings in areas where you've never noticed buildings while driving past...the buildings may now be abandoned/run-down, with the resultant scrap providing lots of artificial cover.

Ensure you're not trespassing if checking such sites!

To the original poster looking for "how to find suitable habitat"--there is always the technique of driving around to see what looks good, but Google Earth is also a great tool. Look for creeks/drainages through fields/farmland (trees lining the drainages give them away). If you find areas of likely cover items near these drainages, that is a plus. Also look for places with exposed rocks along the road--just small hills along the right-of-way with numerous rocks.
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Mark Brown
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Mark Brown »

Google Earth can be a great resource, and if you spot one of those disconnected powerlines or even what appears to be an unused driveway, you can go to Google Earth and often see if there's anything out there worth having a look at. It works best if they shot the Google Earth imagery during the spring or winter - otherwise it might be too grown up to see much. Nowadays with Google Earth, I think I'd always check there before investigating a potential site. And, as Chris said, always get permission before investigating a new site.

Here's a Google Earth shot of a place we hunted yesterday. As you can see, it was tin-rich - really more than three guys could manage, given the fact that it's almost summer and it was totally grown over. But two months earlier in the season and this could be a real treasure trove. All that was visible from the road was a little unused driveway - no outward indication of how much cover was back there.

Image
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

I know this is off topic but another question. Do you all have to check yourselves for ticks after you go on a herp trip? It seems every time I go out I end up finding a Rick or two on me and was wondering if you guys were the same or if I am not taking the precautions to prevent this? Again it's random but I have been wondering
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Mark Brown
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Mark Brown »

You'd better believe it! They're a constant problem here in central Texas and can cause serious problems. I got blood poisoning from one years ago and that's probably the least of the potential threats caused by ticks. Always use DEET and wear a hat in the bush.
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

Ok good it isn't just me haha and tomorrow morning I may take a ride and dive down a couple back roads for scraps laying by I don't even know where to start. I neede to stay local. But I'll let you guys know if I find anything. Once again any extra help is needed
juicebox
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by juicebox »

Well I cant say that I have ever had a "Rick" on me, however I know a few guys that had a Rick come up on them at night and try to attach themselves :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry, I couldn't resist. Some years are worse than others and yes I have often found ticks on myself, kind of part of the whole thing and depending again on hab and where you are looking. Deer ticks are worse than wood ticks although all ticks carry bacteria. You just want to check yourself and remove any within 48 hours of attachment. Make sure to remove the mouth parts. Also I wanted to mention that when you do flip something and find an animal under, I will pull the animal out and then carefully replace the cover that I flipped so as to not crush the animal on accident when I lay the cover back down. This year I have already come across two crushed Fox snakes and one Ring neck under natural cover.
I agree with Ben, for once I was blind and now I can "see", study habitat and
that will help you find what you are looking for provided you understand what kind of animals live in that particular hab. Likely not to find a Queen snake in a sandy oak barren unless someone dropped one there.

Good Luck,

-troy
juicebox
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by juicebox »

P.S. also if you are worried about ticks you can tuck your pants into your hiking boots unless your wearing shorts.

-troy
Jimi
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Jimi »

Mark, that's some good info you shared about watching the power poles. Thanks a ton.

As for ticks - they are probably the dirtiest blood-suckers out there, in terms of the diversity of diseases they carry & can transmit to humans. Seems like every year we're discovering yet another tick-borne illness. Some of them are seriously bad news. Some of them have no cure, you just treat the symptoms. The exceedingly unpleasant symptoms.

So - don't mess with ticks and their bites - just prevent them completely. Some examples of the dieases are here:
http://www.cdc.gov/ticks/diseases/

YUCK!

I'm a raving frothing evangelical for permethrin, the insect repellent. Beats DEET hands-down for effectiveness and also (perhaps especially) duration. I've done comparison tests (left leg-right leg through tall grass just LOUSY with ticks and chiggers) of the Sawyer pre-mixed product (e.g., http://www.amazon.com/Sawyer-Products-P ... B007VCRX2S) and a high-percentage DEET repellent on my pants. No contest whatsoever. The crawlies won't even get on your clothes, they run away from this stuff. Seriously - they touch it, they die. It just warms my heart, what it does to the little bastards.

So come to Jesus and get you some permethrin. Just be sure to read and follow the label instructions - permethrin is for clothes, tents, backpacks, ropes etc - but absolutely not for skin application. Read the reviews at Amazon, there's hundreds and they all sound like me, ha ha: "It's a Miracle!!!"

(For better cost-efficacy, buy some solution and dilute it yourself. E.g., http://travmed.com/products/permethrin- ... -treatment)

cheers,
Jimi
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cbernz
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by cbernz »

juicebox wrote: You just want to check yourself and remove any within 48 hours of attachment.
The "ticks take 24 (or 48) hours to transmit Lyme disease" rule is bunk. You're probably more likely to get it the longer a tick has been on you, but if a tick is infected and bites you, you can catch whatever it has pretty much right away. Check yourself in the field, and do a thorough inspection as soon as you're done, and if available, have a spouse or lover (or extremely close friend) check your unseeable areas for you. I got lucky with my bout of Lyme disease in that I had symptoms right away and got immediate treatment, but I know of others who weren't so lucky. Not only can untreated Lyme cause chronic pain and all kinds of funky organ/muscle issues, but it can damage your nervous system as well and permanently alter your personality.

As for snake suggestions, did anyone mention abandoned train tracks and railroad beds? They're great because they usually create their own edge habitat, and there are usually ties or other debris to flip.
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Mark Brown
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Mark Brown »

Jimi wrote:Mark, that's some good info you shared about watching the power poles. Thanks a ton.
You're very welcome - I hope some of my fellow herpers can make use of it, and I would love to hear of the results. As most of us know, there are few thrills for the field herper to match that of slogging through the woods and coming upon an abandoned structure, with tin and boards all over the ground, and realizing that you may be the first herper to ever work the site. My heart races as I stand there and take it in and try to decide what to do first. It's like presents under the tree on Christmas morning, only much better!
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chrish
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by chrish »

Agree with the other comments about finding snakes, although I stress the remark that several made - DON'T HERP ON LAND WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE PERMISSION.

As for the ticks, I would recommend against using DEET with any frequency. There are numerous cases of it having negative effects from skin lesions to causing hallucinations. It has been tied to birth defects when used by pregnant women and has actually led to the death of a few children (albeit when used in ridiculous amounts)(http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/consultations/ ... fects.html).

I have never had much luck with Permethrin, but others swear by it so it might be worth a try.
I have come to really like the Lemon-Eucalyptus based sprays that are available from Repel and others now (Walmart sells this). It works really well for mosquitoes although I can't say how well it works on ticks. It is a lot more pleasant to use than DEET as well. I kind of like the smell actually. :crazyeyes:

As for ticks, when I go to areas that are REALLY bad for ticks (places like the Ozarks and the mountains of Eastern Mexico after rains), I wear light colored, light weight pants. I tuck them into my socks and I put insect repellent on my pant legs and socks and shoes. But the light material allows you to see ticks on the pants really easily and as a bonus, the light weight material is a heck of a lot more comfortable than wearing jeans in the field!

Yes, you look like a real winner (or worse, a birder!), but if you are going out herping to make a fashion statement, you aren't much of a herper anyway.

Herping in sandals and shorts doesn't prove you are tough, it proves you are stupid. I know, I do it all the time. :oops:
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by chris_mcmartin »

chrish wrote:Herping in sandals and shorts doesn't prove you are tough, it proves you are stupid. I know, I do it all the time. :oops:
I do it not for toughness, but for comfort, and not where there are ticks! :P
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chrish
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by chrish »

chris_mcmartin wrote:
chrish wrote:Herping in sandals and shorts doesn't prove you are tough, it proves you are stupid. I know, I do it all the time. :oops:
I do it not for toughness, but for comfort, and not where there are ticks! :P
Agreed...but even in the absence of ticks, low growing cholla and sandals are not a good combination!
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Jimi »

As for the ticks, I would recommend against using DEET with any frequency. There are numerous cases of it having negative effects from skin lesions to causing hallucinations. It has been tied to birth defects when used by pregnant women and has actually led to the death of a few children (albeit when used in ridiculous amounts)( http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/consultations/ ... fects.html ).

I have never had much luck with Permethrin, but others swear by it so it might be worth a try.
I have come to really like the Lemon-Eucalyptus based sprays that are available from Repel and others now (Walmart sells this). It works really well for mosquitoes although I can't say how well it works on ticks. It is a lot more pleasant to use than DEET as well. I kind of like the smell actually. :crazyeyes:

As for ticks, when I go to areas that are REALLY bad for ticks (places like the Ozarks and the mountains of Eastern Mexico after rains), I wear light colored, light weight pants. I tuck them into my socks and I put insect repellent on my pant legs and socks and shoes. But the light material allows you to see ticks on the pants really easily and as a bonus, the light weight material is a heck of a lot more comfortable than wearing jeans in the field!
The high-test DEET (>30%) is the most dangerous stuff. Lower concentrations are still effective, safe, and very useful. Disease-carrying bugs have killed and injured far more people than all the wars in history...

I agree about the new lemon-euc stuff's effectiveness & also aesthetics. I think the active ingredient is called picaridin (?). I've had pretty decent success with it recently, for flying bugs (haven't tried on ticks & chiggers, they don't have them here thankfully). I also like that it doesn't melt plastic...

As for permethrin - you still need to use something else on your skin. DEET, picaridin, pick your poison. But none of those skin treatments are as instantaneously or enduringly effective as permethrin at keeping the bugs off your boonie hat & clothes (where they either drill you through the fabric, or crawl around probing until they find undefended meat, or hitch-hike back into your house to bite you, your wife, kids, or pets).

The light-colored pants and sock-tuck method are also very useful. Both can be discarded, however, with permethrin-treated pants and boot socks. So the fashion police don't need to be called, ha ha. "No violation here, officer." Ha ha.

Finally, in my opinion field herping in shorts & sandals is either criminally stupid, or you're just holding yourself back from getting down & dirty in the habitat (and thereby missing animals). I don't even like short sleeves in the field, and I prefer a collar. But that's just me - I'll sacrifice some routine small comfort to avoid some big occasional discomfort. Plus it's better sun protection, to have legs, sleeves, and collars on your clothes. It is hotter though, so you need to carry & drink more water.

Anyway, back to the OP question re field-herping snakes - I'd repeat & expand on the generalities others have shared:
- ecotones or "embedded features" like vernal pools, rock outcrops, or cactus clumps almost always out-perform monotonous expanses of habitat,
- match the tactic to the season & the day's (or night's) conditions (flip, stalk & scan, listen, whatever),
- just flip it (and put it back; don't flip it if you can't put it back)
- clouds & overcast are good, sun not so much unless it's quite cool,
- rain, or wind, usually sucks (the harder, the worse),
- and finally, cooler (within reason) beats warmer almost anywhere, almost any time: 60's usually rock (esp calm, sunny mid-upper 60's after a couple "warm" nights), 70's are still good, 80's can be OK esp if low 80's & overcast, 90 or above - sheesh no thanks come back after dark or at sunrise.

Just generalities, there are plenty of exceptions but I firmly believe they support the "rules".

good hunting, stay healthy
Jimi
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

So is midday ok if temps are in the low 80s and overcast? The mornings and evenings have been low 70s and overcast. Thanks. I am planning on going somewhere today but if miday isn't good then I won't.I
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

Give it a shot man. I've found a lot of snakes under those conditions.
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

If I walk trails through a nature preserve, will most snakes not be on them because of the human activity?
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

ReptileLover89 wrote:If I walk trails through a nature preserve, will most snakes not be on them because of the human activity?
Snakes often move across trails and roads so it probably won't bother them.
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

Thanks you have been a huge help. I'm young (16) and enjoy it so much and hopefully will more when I start actually catching some herps. Any other words of advice?
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

Was just at store and was gonna buy some pirnethrin. My mom was a bit cautioned by the warning labels and the dangers to skin. Is it that bad of stuff? I bought REPEL tick repellent with 15% pucaridin buy read that this is a replacement for DEET which is fin but is pirmithrin safe to use at 0.5%? Thanks
Jimi
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Jimi »

Was just at store and was gonna buy some pirnethrin. My mom was a bit cautioned by the warning labels and the dangers to skin. Is it that bad of stuff? I bought REPEL tick repellent with 15% pucaridin buy read that this is a replacement for DEET which is fin but is pirmithrin safe to use at 0.5%? Thanks
I'm glad to hear she was "a bit cautioned". (Hopefully she's not completely scared off.) The warning labels are there for a reason - to be read, comprehended, and followed, so that consumers don't get hurt (and possibly sue the manufacturer). "Followed" presumes you've actually bought the product and are using it. If you don't follow the instructions but still try to use it, yeah sure, it's "bad stuff". On the other hand -

So is gasoline. So is propane.
So is salt, so is pepper.
So is DEET.
So is a chainsaw or lawnmower. Or a pistol and its ammo. Or a staple gun and its ammo.
So is the chlorine you throw in your pool or hot tub.
Hell, drink too much water and it'll kill you (remember the outbreak of ecstacy-rave fatalities?). Drink too little water and that'll kill you too.

Bug dope is kind of like water in that way - use it wrong, life sucks. Don't use it at all - life sucks. So you have to pay attention, and use it right. We do have to pay some attention in life. I'd rather pay attention than live in a nanny state...

You ask a lot of questions, which is a good thing, and you don't seem to have anything wrong with your cognition. So don't be scared off by warning labels, just read, comprehend, and follow them. You'll be fine. With permethrin, the key is to wear protection (dishwashing gloves, sunglasses) and let your clothes dry completely before putting them on. I do almost all of this in the driveway - mix up my bucket of solution, dunk the clothes in it until they're completely saturated (stir 'em with a stick), then fish them out (by stick, or gloved hand) and flop them onto the concrete until they're dried enough to hang on the clothesline without dripping poison all over myself as I'm hanging them up.

Just to be absolutely clear, I repeat my strong endorsement of properly-used permethrin to treat your clothing to repel pesky, parasite- and disease-carrying bloodsucking insects. For your skin, get the picaridin or the DEET.

Finally, back to your original questions and Bryan's responses - he's right. Give it a shot. Those generalizations I shared are only that - generalizations. All "old hands" have plenty of memorable experiences finding things outside the bounds of those generalizations. The specifics of your question re: morning or midday depend on what species are in your area, and what their preferred operating range is. Just get out there and start racking up some experience.

Good hunting, stay healthy, read & follow the rules of that nature preserve.
Jimi
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regalringneck
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by regalringneck »

nice to see all the great tips being shared, heres a couple/3 more; use your map/g-earth & look for dead end roads near town, they generally will have 2 legged swine dumping debris there, often its so overwhelming i just flip the best looking stuff until fatigued, also its amazing how far roofing tin flys in storms, just walking in the woods will generally produce some nice pieces even if theres no homes in the area, especially in hurricane /tornado country.
Also be aware when prowling about abandoned homes, think about bee hives, feral dogs & neighbors who often keep watch & may not be friendly :}
ReptileLover89
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by ReptileLover89 »

Thanks guys. Yesterday I went and caught a huge painted turtle and saw a dead one probably killed by a fisherman. I saw a good size garter but was not fast enough To grab her before she went into knee high weeds. Btw I have heard a lot about Kankakee Il and bull snakes. Are there any locals that could tell me some idea of roads to check because I don't know the area but live really close
MCHerper
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by MCHerper »

Hi ReptileLover,

Since the topic of ticks came up, I wanted to throw in a few other safety pointers for you. First, update your tetanus shot. You will be exposed to nails, broken glass, etc, and you will probably get some good scrapes, puncture wounds, get bitten by racers, all kinds of other stuff. I would also recommend wearing good work gloves and sturdy shoes that a nail will not go through if you step on them. Debris piles are often riddled with nails and broken glass, especially shingle piles. It's easy to move the shingles around so if you are doing it quickly, you could get a puncture wound from a nail. Keep some good antibacterial ointment on you, as well as a first aid kit. Also, if you are not sure if you are allergic to bee stings, keep an epi-pen on you. I also keep liquid Benadryl, in the event that you are having a reaction, it's easier to swallow the liquid form than the capsule.

I feel that no sharing of information is complete without the short lecture on ethics, so please be patient with me and take this to heart: the habitat that you are in is sensitive to disturbance, the species are sensitive to disturbance, and you can negatively impact any herp that you encounter by mishandling or cutting corners. Always keep your hands clean-don't have DEET or sunblock residue, or even the grease from that burger you had at lunch on your hands when handling herps. Amphibians are especially sensitive to this, as their skin is permeable and provides little protective barrier against xenobiotics. Be aware of how heavy the debris is that you are lifting. If you drop heavy debris on a specimen it will most likely kill it, or injure it. Flip debris with the opening facing away from you, as if you flip a venomous snake it is now cornered between you and the back of the board. No good. The microhabitat under the debris that you are flipping probably took a long time to develop-try to replace everything that you move as well as you can.

You can, however, positively impact these species by becoming even minimally involved in their conservation. Be careful to minimize disturbance and stress to any herpetofauna that you interact with. Never forget that there are non-herpers out there who wouldn't hesitate to show that they are cool enough to pick up a snake (without knowing how), or even one up someone else by 'hot handing'. With the wrong ethic, people may treat herping as you would geocaching, which I think is not good. Share photographs with others but avoid sharing the locations, don't take anyone else to your locations or share them unless you are 100% sure that they share the same conservation ethic that you do. Understand the importance of reptiles and amphibians in an ecosystem, and their benefit to us and to other living things. Adopt a conservation-minded approach and please only share with people who love and respect these animals, as there are many people who don't.

To add to what people have written about snakes in general, when hiking in habitat, look up as well as down. Rat snakes and a few other snakes are arboreal. Learn their natural history, learn their prey, learn their habitat, etc. Learn as much about what makes one species different than another as you can, and then you will be able to 'eyemark' habitat quickly and know not only where to explore, but when.

Keep a journal, write down everything, temps, cloud cover, windspeed, other conditions, etc. when you find a specimen. Include time of day, weather for the past several hours, and even lunar cycle (why not?).

Last, use 'soft eyes' and assess the environment before you begin flipping or exploring. Look around for large mammal burrows, nests of stinging insects, etc. I've flipped nests of stinging insects and found myself uncomfortably close to raccoons and beavers. If you flip a nest of stinging insects, don't drop the debris-the vibrations will cause them to swarm much more quickly. Unless they are already starting to swarm, put it down very gently and slowly, and then back away as quickly as needed. Keep this in mind when lifting heavy debris. If you drop heavy debris, the vibrations may set off a nest near you that you didn't see. Not trying to make you paranoid, but there's definitely an art to dealing with stinging insects!

Be safe, have fun, and good luck!!
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Joseph S.
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Joined: June 11th, 2010, 5:21 pm

Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Joseph S. »

This is a pretty interesting thread. I've struggled as well with finding AC that can be accessed. Google Earth is a pretty good bet. What I've found so far in OR at least is oftentimes you can find the occasional abandoned structure and often vehicles but it is usually fairly intact and overgrown with brambles or whatnot. Sometimes material like piles of 2 x 4's or pallets will be off to the side but I haven't had much luck with such things. Single pieces of plywood or tin/old stoves etc. laying out in the open are pretty tough to find IME. I'm looking forward to trying a couple tricks listed above.

Has anyone had any luck in logging tracts? I've seen a few open for recreation/hunting but they don't seem like prime herping habitat. Going is incredibly slow because of the amount of branches and disemboweled trees and since logging trucks have smooshed a lot of stuff into the ground the cover it seems snakes have too many options or otherwise just aren't in areas that were recently logged. Perhaps a place that was logged and then burned but still had lots of logs laying around would be nice.

Just being outdoors to be outdoors is great with snakes being incidental finds. All the zonata I've seen, for example, have been random sightings out in the open-have yet to turn over a rock and find one :/. So if you are outside for other reasons just keeping your ears and eyes open will often turn up a few of the more abundant and active snakes. Hunting by sound is a pretty good way to find racers IME-they can be told pretty easily from other animals as they swish through the grass.
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Noah M
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Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Noah M »

When I first started out I was thinking the animals I would find would be like the ones from the pet store. After enough time, I realized most of the herps, including snakes, out in nature are actually pretty small. In the wild it takes a long time to get big, and life is tough in the natural world, so not too many make it. That's partly why seeing the big ones are such a joy - they carved out existence for many years.

Not only are many smaller than I thought, but these creatures like to squeeze themselves into small spaces and are working really hard not to be noticed. You can't just go for a walk in the woods, you need to actively look and listen. Check, flip, and peer carefully into various places. I was on a boardwalk down in the Everglades one spring and I kept finding stuff, watching the water, checking trees, looking for slight bits of movement. One person walking by asked if I had seen anything, and I listed off half a dozen things, and they were astonished. They had walked all of the way down and back had not seen anything :o Sometimes it isn't just where you look, but how you look too. It takes practice, but you can train your eye to pick out something that doesn't belong. If you can meet up with somebody more experienced, that can help too, because then you can watch how and where they look.

Of course, as others have said, put everything back and keep your hands clean. Don't share your locations with anybody unless you wouldn't mind seeing them and their friends everytime you go there.
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Mark Brown
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Joined: June 8th, 2010, 2:15 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Best Temp for Snakes/ General HELP

Post by Mark Brown »

Joseph S. wrote:This is a pretty interesting thread. I've struggled as well with finding AC that can be accessed. Google Earth is a pretty good bet. What I've found so far in OR at least is oftentimes you can find the occasional abandoned structure and often vehicles but it is usually fairly intact and overgrown with brambles or whatnot. Sometimes material like piles of 2 x 4's or pallets will be off to the side but I haven't had much luck with such things. Single pieces of plywood or tin/old stoves etc. laying out in the open are pretty tough to find IME. I'm looking forward to trying a couple tricks listed above.
Best way to locate that cover that's hidden in foliage and so forth is to go out and hit your sites in the winter (or late fall/early spring) when all the foliage is gone and it's easy to navigate around and to find the cover. You could even take some photos to make sure you can find them when all the greenery has returned.
Joseph S. wrote:So if you are outside for other reasons just keeping your ears and eyes open will often turn up a few of the more abundant and active snakes. Hunting by sound is a pretty good way to find racers IME-they can be told pretty easily from other animals as they swish through the grass.
When I was a kid in Arkansas we used to locate coachwhips and racers by sound all the time. We got pretty proficient at telling snakes from lizards, especially racerunners, in the brush. The lizards tended to run for short bursts while snakes would usually keep crawling, letting us know that there was something in there worth chasing.
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