Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and frogs

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Naja Bungarus
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Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and frogs

Post by Naja Bungarus »

I went herping last night, and found a hungry Naja siamensis (Siamese Cobra / Indochinese Spitting Cobra) in a huge vase without a chance of getting up without someones help..
And I've now fed it and will release it later tonight when I'm out herping again. About 5 minutes later after i bagged the cobra, I found a Bungarus candidus (Malayan Krait / Blue Krait) about 40cm long, they are ultra rare here and i was very lucky to come accross that species :thumb:

The vase the Naja siamensis was trapped inside:
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Bungarus candidus:
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Hylarana erythraea (Green Paddy Frog)
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I'm not a frog expert so if someone could identify this tree frog for me, then I would be thankful :)
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I'll also add the video of an Ophiophagus hannah (King Cobra) I found last year, it nearly got me and I didn't get the whole incident on film, then would for sure had been in the top 10 idiots movies, which also would be very cool :lol: :mrgreen:


Cheers all :beer:
Henning

edit: reason resized images
Gabrial
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Gabrial »

I have not posted on this forum in a long time, but that video really disturbed me.

You were just friggin with that cobra for no reason other than you felt like it. That whole pretending to bite it and and taunting it, as well as the absolute stupidity exemplified by touching its head, made absolutely no sense to me. I didn't watch the entirety of the video, only parts of it, but what I saw absolutely disgusted me. I hope I'm not alone in thinking this.

Also, if you must handle hots, you may want to rethink the ways in which you handle do it. I saw several points in that video where you could have easily gotten tagged.
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

The N. siamensis got in much better shape after eating some frogs. Wonder why it was still mad at me, I just saved his ass :lol:
Thanks to David Frohlich and George for helping making it pose, even the Bungarus, while photographing 8-)

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I hope it stays away from vases from now on, and I hope to see you again :mrgreen:

:beer:

edit: reason resized images
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

I was very saddened by this.
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

@Kelly Mc

Please stay away from my PM inbox, and keep your sarcastic words for yourself. Please keep it public if you have something more to say

Henning
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

No sir, I was not being sarcastic. I sincerely meant every word of my short message.

I did not post my response to your video out of a desire to withhold a negative decorum on the Forum. But per your request, I said :

Your behavior with the cobra makes you look like a clownish thug.



- Kelly McDougall
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gbin
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by gbin »

Re: the video. Wishing you much luck, Henning - it sure looks like you need it.

(Where's the "thumbs-down" emoticon when you need it?)

Gerry
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

Kelly Mc wrote:No sir, I was not being sarcastic. I sincerely meant every word of my short message.

But per your request, I said :

Your behavior with the cobra makes you look like a clownish thug.



- Kelly McDougall
I did not request you to repost what you wrote to me in PM, I think you need to reread what I wrote
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

gbin wrote:Re: the video. Wishing you much luck, Henning - it sure looks like you need it.

(Where's the "thumbs-down" emoticon when you need it?)

Gerry
Sometimes one need a bit, or even alot of luck :) Thumbs down and thumbs up can be found on youtube.com

Cheers
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

A little bit of information about King Cobras here in Thailand, they usually get killed bec of fear and/or to be eaten, this happens several times daily, or they are captured for snake show or to keep as pet, which I am against. Wild animals belongs in the wild not in a jail, period!

Actually for all of you who do not understand, my encounter with this cobra was nothing but good for this individual as it was laying in the open not fearing humans at all.

Now, after I overtook it and even played with it, it understands that humans are to be feared and will for sure stay away from people or even lay on or close to the road after the encounter with me in the future.

This is good for any snake that do not fear humans here in Thailand, bec thais keep killing even harmless snakes bec of ignorance, they think anything is venomous except a few they already know are not.
Education about snakes here is equal to zero!

So please stop weeping, open your eyes and see the reality!

Cheers
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

"He went down a hill and I started dragging the tail.."
This said in recount of the initial moments encountering the cobra.




Add edit- I am unconvinced that your crude, showboating antics had anything to do with teaching the cobra or regard for its well being. I will leave with no further comment, out of deference to those on this forum whom I respect highly, who have studied / and photographed these animals in the wild, with true professionalism.
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

Kelly Mc wrote:"He went down a hill and I started dragging the tail.."
This said in recount of the initial moments encountering the cobra.
Yeah, after stopping the bike, stare a bit shocked at it bec of what I saw at the same time opening my camera bag and took the camera out, then it slowly started to move down a hill, slower than walking speed.
Anything you're trying to insinuate here? Or anything else you got on your mind?

Henning
daniel
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by daniel »

I was very saddened by this.
Me too.
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justinm
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by justinm »

I'm not a fan, so I'll remember not to even open your posts or check your youtube videos. Most of the folks here, if you take the time to learn frown on this kind of behavior. Maybe you'll learn to respect and deserve the animals you find. I hope so, but this behavior makes me angry so I'm done for now.
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

Kelly Mc wrote:Add edit- I am unconvinced that your crude, showboating antics had anything to do with teaching the cobra or regard for its well being. I will leave with no further comment, out of deference to those on this forum whom I respect highly, who have studied / and photographed these animals in the wild, with true professionalism.
This was the first time I've ever seen or come accross a King Cobra in the wild, I've just seen one in a cage in Chiang mai when i visited some friends running a cobra show.
That said, the feeling and adrenaline to see and find a King in the wild, is something I could not refuse holding, whenever I was just holding it, or making gestures makes no difference, this is a snake, not a human.
That i held it and played with it for about 20 min for sure gave a understanding to the snake about humans, and that they should stay far away from their sightings.
That being said, I doubt i would ever try to catch a King Cobra if I saw one again, just bec I've done it and the danger of it, these are actually no joke and can be lightning fast.
I'm sorry, but I'm not a professional! But i've photographed most species inhabit my area excpet a small handful.
This is a snake, not a human, so ur so called "crude, showboating antics" statement did not offend the snake than any other hand holding at all, that was just for fun.
Anyway, as I've said, this snake and it's next generations now have another human encounter in their genes, so they will stay even further away from them.
And luckily for the snake it was me and not a Thai with a machete or a gun!
justinm wrote:I'm not a fan, so I'll remember not to even open your posts or check your youtube videos. Most of the folks here, if you take the time to learn frown on this kind of behavior. Maybe you'll learn to respect and deserve the animals you find. I hope so, but this behavior makes me angry so I'm done for now.
I've actually learned alot on my 4th year of herping here, mostly by myself and using general morals. Most snakes I find that I've already have photographed I don't even touch, rather take a photo if it's in a good position and then head on looking (for example day snakes sleeping at night).
If you don't want to read my posts, then please don't, no worries from me, and when it comes to my youtube channel, maybe a new video will come in 4 years, if it happened u've seen the date between the 2, so feel free to stay away from that one too.

Henning
luv_the_smellof_musk
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by luv_the_smellof_musk »

I didn't watch the video but unless the snake was injured, forced to endure unusual temperatures, or completely exhausted, I don't see what the big deal is. Everyone has his or her owl level of risk and Henning clearly knew he was taking a risk and seems accepting that the outcome could have been quite negative. I doubt the people of Thailand have the same knee jerk reactions that the public here in the states would so the usual public perception blah blah need not apply. Cut the poor guy some slack, he came here to talk with people who like snakes, at least this guy is contributing some content =) Btw is it just me or do the same handful of people always have something negative to say?
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

luv_the_smellof_musk wrote:I didn't watch the video but unless the snake was injured, forced to endure unusual temperatures, or completely exhausted, I don't see what the big deal is. Everyone has his or her owl level of risk and Henning clearly knew he was taking a risk and seems accepting that the outcome could have been quite negative. I doubt the people of Thailand have the same knee jerk reactions that the public here in the states would so the usual public perception blah blah need not apply. Cut the poor guy some slack, he came here to talk with people who like snakes, at least this guy is contributing some content =) Btw is it just me or do the same handful of people always have something negative to say?
Thanks for your comment, the first nice one actually. Appreciated :)
No the snake was neither injured, exhausted or treated bad in any way, except I hand held it for some time before releasing it.
Yes I came to have a nice talk and all I've seen so far is keyboard warriors.

Thanks and cheers :beer:
Henning
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

Tourists surprising mega fauna with fire crackers or blowhorns, or flinging garbage at bird life in sanctuaries would recieve the same critique.

There is nothing about a King Cobra, or any snake, that shouldnt garner the same respect for the living.

Especially if one claims to like them
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gbin
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by gbin »

I wouldn't dream of looking up a video of yours on youtube, Henning; I wish I hadn't come across one here.

And I'm not particularly concerned about the snake in your video. You definitely stressed it quite a bit, but stressors are a fact of life and even if the one you inflicted was rather severe I would imagine the animal will get over it. I realize there may - or may not - be something to your suggestion about it avoiding humans after having been so seriously hassled by one, too.

I'm not particularly concerned about you, either. Wishing you luck given that your behavior is dangerously reckless is about as far as I'll go in that direction.

What bothers me and the reason I'd give your video a big thumbs-down if this website had such an emoticon available is that you're making our entire community look bad. People see videos of religious fanatics dancing with handfuls of North American pit vipers and they think we're all that way. People see videos of foolish herpers recklessly showboating with Southeast Asian cobras and they think we're all that way. Etc. You've a right to risk your life however you like, sure, even if it tends to drag the rest of us down with you to at least some extent, but I've a right to be disgusted by the self-centered immaturity of it as well.

People mature at different rates, but pretty nearly everyone does indeed mature at some point - if they live long enough. Mostly I'm hoping you manage it before you get yourself killed and make us all look even worse than you're already doing.

Gerry
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

gbin wrote:I wouldn't dream of looking up a video of yours on youtube, Henning; I wish I hadn't come across one here.

And I'm not particularly concerned about the snake in your video. You definitely stressed it quite a bit, but stressors are a fact of life and even if the one you inflicted was rather severe I would imagine the animal will get over it. I realize there may - or may not - be something to your suggestion about it avoiding humans after having been so seriously hassled by one, too.

I'm not particularly concerned about you, either. Wishing you luck given that your behavior is dangerously reckless is about as far as I'll go in that direction.

What bothers me and the reason I'd give your video a big thumbs-down if this website had such an emoticon available is that you're making our entire community look bad. People see videos of religious fanatics dancing with handfuls of North American pit vipers and they think we're all that way. People see videos of foolish herpers recklessly showboating with Southeast Asian cobras and they think we're all that way. Etc. You've a right to risk your life however you like, sure, even if it tends to drag the rest of us down with you to at least some extent, but I've a right to be disgusted by the self-centered immaturity of it as well.

People mature at different rates, but pretty nearly everyone does indeed mature at some point - if they live long enough. Mostly I'm hoping you manage it before you get yourself killed and make us all look even worse than you're already doing.

Gerry
Every single individual represent themselves and only themselves, only fools would look at single individuals as a whole community.

And the fact when it comes to my video, taking your statement into consideration, it would drag the community up if it is as you say, that people look at single indivduals as a whole community as about 90% like this video, and about 10% dislike it.

The like/dislike is a proving fact going against what you just said, about my video dragging down this community whenever you like it or not. When it comes to me growing up... I hope I'll stay half a kid and half matured for the rest of my life ;)

And to add my oppinion, if something drags this community down, it's comments like yours and some other comments replied in this thread.

Cheers
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

gbin wrote:I wouldn't dream of looking up a video of yours on youtube, Henning; I wish I hadn't come across one here.

And I'm not particularly concerned about the snake in your video. You definitely stressed it quite a bit, but stressors are a fact of life and even if the one you inflicted was rather severe I would imagine the animal will get over it. I realize there may - or may not - be something to your suggestion about it avoiding humans after having been so seriously hassled by one, too.

I'm not particularly concerned about you, either. Wishing you luck given that your behavior is dangerously reckless is about as far as I'll go in that direction.

What bothers me and the reason I'd give your video a big thumbs-down if this website had such an emoticon available is that you're making our entire community look bad. People see videos of religious fanatics dancing with handfuls of North American pit vipers and they think we're all that way. People see videos of foolish herpers recklessly showboating with Southeast Asian cobras and they think we're all that way. Etc. You've a right to risk your life however you like, sure, even if it tends to drag the rest of us down with you to at least some extent, but I've a right to be disgusted by the self-centered immaturity of it as well.

People mature at different rates, but pretty nearly everyone does indeed mature at some point - if they live long enough. Mostly I'm hoping you manage it before you get yourself killed and make us all look even worse than you're already doing.

Gerry

Gerry I have wondered if sociologists and psychologists have yet to focus on the new lush study field of instant mini celebridom of this new age. To digress from the mini cobra wrangler show, to YouTube general, its as if human Id and technology have collided in titanic whiplash, and a whole new genre of pathologies - or at least accelerrated versions of ones already identified, have a feverish petri to flourish.

Without judgement or critique of specific subject materials - it is really kind of fascinating from a psychological aspect. The subject of herps and herp activities on YouTube is its own thread worthy subject, and one I find very troubling. But I wanted to bring the YouTube Phenomenon up, and the instant grata of cyberspace in general. I wonder if there are studies, as well as studies of human social interaction and communication on the internet. Interesting
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by jimoo742 »

That vid sucks
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by TravisK »

Henning,

I got started in FHF because I kissed a crote on the nose and posted the pic online. There ended up being a lot of backlash from it and rightly so, but after some self refection I got more involved in this hobby and have a deeper respect and appreciation for the crotes I was previously molesting to the point of being inappropriate and technically illegal. It was super reckless and foolish for myself to do, and I had to eventually admit that it would/could also encourage other idiots to do the same. I have always loved herps and nature in general, but I have a deeper respect for hots than I did before. I know where you were coming from, but it was a little irritating for me to watch the video. I felt like you were taking unnecessary risk with your life which is fine for you I guess, but not tasteful to post it on youtube in my opinion.

I bet it was a lot of fun interacting with those creatures and you are fortunate to be able to travel and see them.
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gbin
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by gbin »

Kelly Mc wrote:Gerry I have wondered if sociologists and psychologists have yet to focus on the new lush study field of instant mini celebridom of this new age. To digress from the mini cobra wrangler show, to YouTube general, its as if human Id and technology have collided in titanic whiplash, and a whole new genre of pathologies - or at least accelerrated versions of ones already identified, have a feverish petri to flourish.

Without judgement or critique of specific subject materials - it is really kind of fascinating from a psychological aspect. The subject of herps and herp activities on YouTube is its own thread worthy subject, and one I find very troubling. But I wanted to bring the YouTube Phenomenon up, and the instant grata of cyberspace in general. I wonder if there are studies, as well as studies of human social interaction and communication on the internet. Interesting
I'd never thought about it before, Kelly, but now that you've brought it up I feel sure you must be right. Lots of material for sociologists and psychologists to work with, lots of graduate studies to be found, in those youtube videos. Most definitely including those made by snake wranglers for their own glorification.
TravisK wrote:I got started in FHF because I kissed a crote on the nose and posted the pic online. There ended up being a lot of backlash from it and rightly so, but after some self refection I got more involved in this hobby and have a deeper respect and appreciation for the crotes I was previously molesting to the point of being inappropriate and technically illegal. It was super reckless and foolish for myself to do, and I had to eventually admit that it would/could also encourage other idiots to do the same. I have always loved herps and nature in general, but I have a deeper respect for hots than I did before. I know where you were coming from, but it was a little irritating for me to watch the video. I felt like you were taking unnecessary risk with your life which is fine for you I guess, but not tasteful to post it on youtube in my opinion.
Your post deserves a thumbs-up every bit as much as Henning's video deserves a thumbs-down, Travis, so here you go: :thumb:

It's not whether one has made a mistake that defines one's character. Everybody makes mistakes. What matters is whether one is able to admit one's mistakes and willing to make an effort to do better in the future.

Gerry
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by luv_the_smellof_musk »

Gerry,

How would his behaviour bring the whole herp community down? I don't know if you are aware or not, but the public perception of most hot keepers is pretty low to begin with. As far as handling wild snakes, I doubt the general public is too concerned about the snakes or if someone handles them from time to time. Seeing people regularly interact with snakes, snake shows, etc has no negative effect on keeping hots as far as I can tell. I suspect the more people encounter and see humans handling venomous, the less offensive the idea seems. However, in the end, I expect all states will have rather strict laws in any event and it won't be because of some guy in Thailand.
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gbin
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by gbin »

luv_the_smellof_musk wrote:How would his behaviour bring the whole herp community down? I don't know if you are aware or not, but the public perception of most hot keepers is pretty low to begin with....
Uh-huh, and I would argue - indeed I essentially already have argued - that this is due at least partly to that minority of folks who recklessly play with hots and then publicize it because it pleases their vanity, just as is the case with Henning's video. (Grace Olive Wiley played some of the very same game before a much larger audience - and garnered the herp community quite a bit of bad press first with her dangerously irresponsible behavior and finally with her resulting death - more than 60 years ago.) Your question was answered before you asked it; surely you had to know that.

And let's not pretend that I am (or all of the other people here who are unhappy with Henning's video are) objecting to herpers handling snakes in general, either.

I've stated both my view and my reasoning, and see no point in sticking around for an endless rehashing nor the inevitable distortion of the matter. I'm out.

Gerry
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

Henning I do have a suggestion, if you are going to be handling snakes that are kinda big for you (hopefully nonvens for the combed out here obvious) but when you have a snake thats too big for you to manage smoothly, stay off the balls of your feet, be flat footed - the wobbling around and constant shifting to keep balance is counter productive. This goes for all animals not just snakes. Let the ground provide more surface area ergo and less is more with the gripping and over restraint (yeah, i know its a cobra, but im sure there will be big non vens you will be holding, for your movies)

Dont take offense - Im a small person too.

As for the opportunity to see a King Cobra in the wild - what a privilege. If I ever saw one I would be so overwhelmed with awe that I would have to resist the impulse to drop to one knee. heck who am i kidding. I wouldnt resist. I would kneel at a good distance of course, before such a magnificent animal. Romanticize - maybe. But im in good company.
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

Kelly Mc wrote:Henning I do have a suggestion, if you are going to be handling snakes that are kinda big for you (hopefully nonvens for the combed out here obvious) but when you have a snake thats too big for you to manage smoothly, stay off the balls of your feet, be flat footed - the wobbling around and constant shifting to keep balance is counter productive. This goes for all animals not just snakes. Let the ground provide more surface area ergo and less is more with the gripping and over restraint (yeah, i know its a cobra, but im sure there will be big non vens you will be holding, for your movies)

Dont take offense - Im a small person too.

As for the opportunity to see a King Cobra in the wild - what a privilege. If I ever saw one I would be so overwhelmed with awe that I would have to resist the impulse to drop to one knee. heck who am i kidding. I wouldnt resist. I would kneel at a good distance of course, before such a magnificent animal. Romanticize - maybe. But im in good company.
Thank you for a so much kinder reply Kelly and yeah your absolutely right with your suggestion about my foot movement.
Overwhelming is the right word of seeing a King Cobra in the wild, as this was my first time, I could not resist the feeling of holding it, touching it, feel it...
Simply one of the highest adrenaline rush one can experience!

One thing is almost for sure, if I see another King this size, or even a bit smaller, I'll just film it if I get the chance and not touch it as they can be pretty skilled at getting you. Also the tong can fail, also one can get a bad grip.

I've had my tong fixed after this incident, the bolt holdig the upper jaw broke off for some odd reason (cheap tong), what more if that happened when I was about to grab the king with my hand...

I hope that one day you are as lucky as me to find a King Cobra, but you need a hell of a luck as they are clever, got amazing senses and usually avoid humans at all costs.
Good luck! ;)

Cheers
Henning
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gbin
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by gbin »

Naja Bungarus wrote:One thing is almost for sure, if I see another King this size, or even a bit smaller, I'll just film it if I get the chance and not touch it as they can be pretty skilled at getting you. Also the tong can fail, also one can get a bad grip.
Wow, I saw this and thought "Maybe this guy can figure things out before he loses life or limb." I even thought about giving you a thumbs-up emoticon of your own for flashing a bit of sense. But then I saw this in another thread:
Hans Breuer (twoton) wrote:
Naja Bungarus wrote:Image
Very interesting! What exactly is your rationale for picking up a pit viper with your bare hands? They never bite? The venom of this particular species can't kill humans? You know exactly how to handle them so they won't bite?
Naja Bungarus wrote:This is the first and only Trimeresurus albolabris I've found. What I did was to take it out of the bag during the day, and when I saw it did not go into any striking position, even when I held my hand closer and closer, I decided to give it a try to hold it, because it moved so slowly and didn't seem to bother me at all.

This is a screenshot from a video shooting (Thanks to David Frohlich for filming).
When we did that shooting it bit me once with a dry bite, because I moved my hand a little too fast.

After that no more bites and I could hold it over and over again, the whole day, and it seemed to really enjoy it.

...

I experienced a good bite at night during rain in the jungle from the same snake later that day (I thought we were still friends :lol: ), when I was going to release it.
I refused antivenom at the hospital the same day since the blood test results was "ok", but that was for now.

I was told to come back to the hospital 7am the day after for a new blood test, and I did not sleep more than maybe 30 min that night because of the extreme pain, like my arm was on fire, and the test next morning were not good at all.
I was sent straight to the emergency room and recieved 3 bags of antivenom and spent almost a week in the hospital.
After some days in the hospitals I got inner bleeding on my right side of my body, and half of my gentials got red colored (they're fine now by the way and still fully functional) :thumb:

I can post a picture of my finger, so people can see what kind of dammage a bite from this snake can do to you.
My finger is fine now, missing just about 1mm of flesh where the fangs entered and my nail is like a bow, other than that it's as it was before :)
This was in september/october 2013

Image
Now I'm just hoping you don't have any children or other dependents to suffer from your inevitable death or disability. In a contest of stupidity versus luck, stupidity will eventually win every time.

Gerry
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chrish
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by chrish »

I won't pile on about the video since I didn't watch it.....

But I do have to point out two other issues....

1. Learn to resize your photos before posting them here. There is absolutely no reason to post a photo that is 2048 pixels wide on this forum. Half that is generally large enough. And photos don't look better larger.

2. Your last photo troubles me after I went to a talk by Dr. Harry Greene last week where he talked about the frequency with which pinning snakes behind the head and in particular, putting objects behind their fangs fractures the maxilla and other skull bones. So next time you do that, ask yourself "Am I willing to fracture this snake's skull bones in order to get a photo?" Honestly, I would rather you killed the snake first and then you could get really nice photos of the fangs and open mouth. At least the snake wouldn't have to suffer after you took the photo.
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Naja Bungarus
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Naja Bungarus »

chrish wrote:I won't pile on about the video since I didn't watch it.....

But I do have to point out two other issues....

1. Learn to resize your photos before posting them here. There is absolutely no reason to post a photo that is 2048 pixels wide on this forum. Half that is generally large enough. And photos don't look better larger.

2. Your last photo troubles me after I went to a talk by Dr. Harry Greene last week where he talked about the frequency with which pinning snakes behind the head and in particular, putting objects behind their fangs fractures the maxilla and other skull bones. So next time you do that, ask yourself "Am I willing to fracture this snake's skull bones in order to get a photo?" Honestly, I would rather you killed the snake first and then you could get really nice photos of the fangs and open mouth. At least the snake wouldn't have to suffer after you took the photo.

Pictures resized!


When it comes to the maxillary bone (or other bones) getting broken, I beileve that might happen to some species.
Some species can even break their neck trying to get loose when pinned.

I would like to see some documentationv by Dr. Harry Greene after doing research on the same thing when it comes to Naja siamensis, (or any cobra) as they are not very strong and they're not trying too hard to get lose, also you have the whole hood region to grip and you can hold it a bit further down from the head as they're's not very flexible to get you, and the fangs are short.

But anyway thanks alot for the info, that was something I did suspect, but did not know for sure until now.

Cheers
Henning
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chrish
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by chrish »

Naja Bungarus wrote:When it comes to the maxillary bone (or other bones) getting broken, I beileve that might happen to some species.
Some species can even break their neck trying to get loose when pinned.

I would like to see some documentationv by Dr. Harry Greene after doing research on the same thing when it comes to Naja siamensis, (or any cobra) as they are not very strong and they're not trying too hard to get lose, also you have the whole hood region to grip and you can hold it a bit further down from the head as they're's not very flexible to get you, and the fangs are short.

But anyway thanks alot for the info, that was something I did suspect, but did not know for sure until now.

Cheers
Henning
So you are saying "I'm not going to stop doing this until someone proves I'm actually harming the snakes."?

I was just trying to point out that what you are doing is:

A. totally unnecessary and
B. potentially hazardous to the animal.

Here's a question to ask yourself in the mirror sometime....Why did I feel it was necessary to stress and potentially injure this animal to get a photo of the fangs?

All of us have done this at some point in time. Most of us stop when we start to think about why we were doing it in the first place. I sincerely hope that one day you won't find it necessary any more either not just for the potential threat to the animal but also to your own health.
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The Real Snake Man
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by The Real Snake Man »

Wow. I'm almost at a loss for words. All I can say is, I'm only seventeen, but I've been reading the forum just about every day since I was ten or eleven (I post rarely because it's hard for me to get out of my suburb and find cool stuff, though there will be a few end-of-summer posts). In that time, I've seen a few guys go from reckless hot-handling (and stubborn denial of their inappropriate behavior) to responsible herping in not too long a time. Hopefully the same will happen for you. I'm not worried about your video labeling all herpers for all time, and the extended handling and taunting (though childish) didn't bother me much either. If you want to risk your life for an awesome find, that's not my business either. I did, however, find some things in there that I didn't like: for instance, grabbing the cobra's face with the tongs so you could get at the neck. I think it would have been easier on the snake, if you wanted memories you could revisit, to just pull it back to the road and photograph/video it like that. It seemed willing enough to pose with its beautiful flattened neck, staring right at you. What more did you want? How much greater is the experience if you decide to man-handle the snake than if you simply sit back and look at it? When my dad and I find rattlesnakes, for one, we're too scared to touch them with anything other than the tongs; but also, we just can't think of a good reason for handling them. Maybe you should ask yourself what your reason is. You've made a few mistakes, and so far appear not to have learned from them. Take some advice: accept the criticism, learn from it, and go do things differently in the future. This is a fun community, and they'll be perfectly willing to praise the awesome snakes you find when you're willing to respect the snakes and their feedback.
-Gene
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Kelly Mc
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by Kelly Mc »

So much more about an animal is revealed by observing it in the spectrum of its composure. If you only seek to chase, overpower and display, hardly more can be experienced than the destruction of that composure, and the way it feels in your hands when its gone.

There is more to any animal to absorb, than just the morbidity of that moment.
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jonathan
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Re: Last night N. siamensis saved from deathrow, krait and f

Post by jonathan »

Naja Bungarus wrote:Anyway, as I've said, this snake and it's next generations now have another human encounter in their genes, so they will stay even further away from them.
Please, fellow science teachers, we clearly have to do a better job on teaching the whole genes thing.
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