New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad!

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Don Cascabel
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New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad!

Post by Don Cascabel »

Hello Forum mates:

I wanted to introduce to you a new project that we are working on, something that strives to go a bit beyond Field Herping and onto rediscovering extinct herps around the world, which in many cases, the scientific community has given up hope on. This is kind of why I asked you all what herps you what herps you would look for if you had the chance to rediscover one. We are HEART, a group of herpetologists from around the US and México that have been on and off these internet forums for years. I am one of the leaders of the group, and many of you know me from back in the "not allowed" days, when I posted as Mr. Sonora. Later Fieldherpers.com, ReptilesofAZ, Chihuahuan Desert, Crotalus.com, etc... Others know me as Don Cascabel, Mr. Peep or by my real name, Chris Gruenwald. Those of you who know me better, know that the last decade I have spent living and exploring México, specifically looking for rare and hard to find Reptiles and Amphibians. Some of our exploits include rediscovering Crotalus lannomi, finding the first live Porthidium hespere since it's description (now there have been many more), as well as adding over 30 species to the known herpetofauna of Colima and dozens of range extensions and state records.

Our group, H.E.A.R.T. will focus primarily on searching for Reptiles and Amphibians which have been classified as Extinct by the IUCN, and thus are not receiving the adequate attention by their respective governments and researchers. Our first project will be Bufo periglenes, the Golden Toad. We have decided to use a new and innovative method of funding our project. Instead of appealing to a large Conservation Association or Group such as Nat Geo or WWF, we have decided to go straight to the general public via crowd funding. This gives us more flexibility and apply our methods that have worked for us in the past. The platform we want to use is Kickstarter, as this has proven successful for similar projects. I invite everyone here to check out our project, and read through our goals. If you think it is a good project, please consider contributing. Even the smallest contribution helps. If you can not contribute, we understand, but if you think it's a great project, please share it with EVERYONE you think would be interested. Share the link on your Facebook, send out a link through your e-mail, get the word out.

The link to our project is here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/739 ... olden-toad

Constructive criticism here is welcome! We are breaking ice towards new ground here... the idea is using crowd funding, something which has worked for artistic projects, towards Herp related Conservation Projects. Please let me know what you think... I have invested quite a bit of time in this project and if it materializes will invest quite a bit of personal cash into it, however I think the goal is important and will open the doors to a whole new field in Conservational Science, which is basically search and rescue!

Thanks all, looking forward to your support.

Best wishes,

Chris Gruenwald
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Brian Folt
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Brian Folt »

Whoa, ambitious first project! Here are a couple thoughts that came to mind while reading this post and your KickStarter proposal.
We feel that while the case of the Golden Toad has received a huge amount of attention, there was never a coordinated attempt to rediscover it within its original range, or to search for other localities nearby where it may have fared better than within its known range.
Haven't Alan Pounds and Marty Crump, folks who have been working at Monteverde for decades, put in serious legwork searching for this species? I don't know either of them (except for reputation), but I find it hard to believe that they have not. A quick scan of Marty Crump's Wikipedia page indicates that she published a book In Search of the Golden Frog.

I think you may be on to something by seeking to search other suitable habitats on private properties other than the Monteverde Preserve (assuming Pounds and Crump have thoroughly searched Monteverde). Have you thought about performing a formal ecological niche model or a habitat model to more rigorously identify potential sites that might be suitable for periglenes from a statistical perspective (or has someone already done this?). These tools have been useful for discovering unknown populations of other small-ranged species, such as the Alabama endemic Red Hills Salamander (Phaeognathus hubrichti; Apodaca et al. 2012. Using a species-specific habitat model helps identify unprotected populations of the federally threatened Red Hills salamander (Phaeognathus hubrichti). Herpetological Review 43:230-233.).

I think permission to visit and search for amphibians at Monteverde should be a first essential hurdle. After landowner permission, permits from the Costa Rican government would be another extremely important hurdle. I'm not too experienced with crowd funding, but what would happen to all the money if you were unable to gain landowner permission or permits from the government?

Just a quick scan of your proposed costs:
Five headlamps and six flashlights ($450): Don't all you herpers already have that gear?
Rain gear ($500): Don't you all own raincoats already?
On site laptop for data collection ($800): A rite-in-the-rain notebook ($15) should suit your needs just fine.

I know that Mason Ryan, a PhD candidate at the University of New Mexico, along with a crew of tico collaborators, have been similarly crowd-funding resources to organize searches for extinct (?) amphibians in Costa Rica (http://www.gofundme.com/3fzmdk). Maybe you guys could collaborate with them, bounce ideas back and forth, and divide-and-conquer searches. The beauty of collaborating with the ticos is that they live in the county...

Good luck with your goal of searching for rare or extinct species. I think this is admirable and needs to be done more often. As a good friend of mine once told me, "never go herping just for fun". With this thought in mind, some collaborators and I searched for the extinct Bay Springs Salamander (Plethodon ainsworthi) in 2012 (Folt et al. 2013. Amphibians and reptiles of Jasper County, Mississippi with comments on the potentially extinct Bay Springs Salamander (Plethodon ainsworthi). Herpetological Review 44:283-286.). Interesting enough, a paper published this week suggests that the holotype and paratype of Plethodon ainsworthi are/were within the realm of variation of Plethodon mississippi, so P. ainsworthi probably is not a real species (Himes, JG and DC Beckett. 2013. The status of Plethodon ainsworthi Lazell: Extinct, extant, or nonexistent? Southeastern Naturalist 12:851-856.).
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Andy Avram
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Andy Avram »

I have read your about your past discoveries on this website and applaud your effort and dedication to finding (for lack of a better term) "overlooked" species, and your new goals to rediscover declared extinct species. I mean, people aren't likely to find things they aren't looking for.

BUT...

Trying to look at this H.E.A.R.T. kickstarter thing as a complete outsider to anything you have ever done and I can't help but see it as a way to fund a group of friends vacation. Other than Hansen no one appears to have any serious credentials. Are you affiliated with any universities? Do you have the backing of any scientific institutions for this project? Other than a group of friends who have a knack for finding hard to find species that want to try their luck in Costa Rica what is your professional affiliations? You have a list of who is going, but it really is just a list of names and pictures.

Also, H.E.A.R.T. What is it? Is it solely a group of friends looking for Golden Toads? That is how it reads on the kickstarter page. If Golden Toads fail does this same group look for other species? If I try and do an internet search of this organization nothing comes up. Does the group have any legal backing or is just a name a bunch of friends came up with? Does any money in excess of the budget goal go to other projects? Get donated to Chytrid or tropical frog research? Or how are you held accountable to the money collected.

Reading your posts on the various forums for years, I don't doubt you motives are pure and you really will spend the money to work your butt off to find Golden Toads, but I really do read this as a fairly well worded ploy to fund a sweet vacation for a bunch of friends.

Remember you are asking people for their hard-earned money. Why is your organization better than an established conservation organization?

Andy
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klawnskale
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by klawnskale »

Contact Hank Molt. He has always loved a good challenging adventure with lucrative prospects.
troy hibbitts
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by troy hibbitts »

Andy Avram wrote:Other than Hansen no one appears to have any serious credentials. Are you affiliated with any universities? Do you have the backing of any scientific institutions for this project? Other than a group of friends who have a knack for finding hard to find species that want to try their luck in Costa Rica what is your professional affiliations? You have a list of who is going, but it really is just a list of names and pictures.
And this matters why? Klauber had no serious academic credentials. And although I've personally got an MS, I can also always list myself as a "research associate" just about any museum to which I donate specimens (with their permission, of course). Greunie can likely do the same for UNAM or UANL.
Andy Avram wrote: Why is your organization better than an established conservation organization?
History of successfully re-discovering "lost species"? If that's not clear on your website, it should be - its your big selling point.

Troy
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Andy Avram
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Andy Avram »

Troy,

He asked for constructive criticism. If they want to reach $15,000 it isn't likely to happen with only people already familiar with their work (such as forum users). If someone isn't familiar with their work and they see no backing by an sort of institution (just a group of friends who are good at finding things) why would they be likely to give them money? Are you and did Klauber ask the general public to fund any outing based on only words and trust? This H.E.A.R.T. group is. The more support they have from established institutions, provided they can honestly claim it, the more likely they will get more money to reach their goal.

As for the H.E.A.R.T. in general, I think needs to be explained better, not just in the context of Golden Toads.
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klawnskale
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by klawnskale »

Klauber never asked for handouts or donations when he began his personal research on herpetological taxonomy. He was later hired and funded by the San Diego Zoo; which is an internationally recognized academic institution. To establish credibility it is only beneficial to gain the support and recognition of an academic institution. Legitimate scientific researchers are having a very difficult time nowadays to acquire grants and funding for their projects. I hear of them confessing to spending countless hours corresponding and writing proposals to acquire such grants for their research. It is not easy. You maybe able to convince those charitable in the private sector to contribute to your venture, but in order to woo them, you had better make a strong case on how they would benefit from it; or that your pursuit is truly profound and publicly admirable.
troy hibbitts
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by troy hibbitts »

Andy,

Your constructive criticism sounded like "how do you guys expect anyone to donate to you 'cause you're not academics" rather than "you guys really need to clarify things on your website in order to have a better chance of successfully generating your funds".

$15K is not a LOT of money, actually. Some advertising at herp expos, on forums, and in magazines (if they'd donate the space) and I wouldn't be surprised if he comes up with it.

I do agree that he needs to do a better job of selling the organization, though.

Troy
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cbernz
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by cbernz »

I love the idea of crowd-funding research projects, and I really, really hope you guys get down there and find some Golden Toads. This project is kind of a tough sell, however. You're asking people to give money to a project that carries an inherent and very strong likelihood for failure, which you rightly acknowledge in the course of your description. There is a possibility the toad exists, but your project seems to be based on hope rather than evidence. It is still a great idea to go looking, but I think many people who normally might contribute to conservation- or research-based projects might be less willing to contribute to this, which seems more like an exploratory mission which would hopefully, if successful, then spawn conservation and research projects.

Here are my thoughts, as someone who has contributed to both conservation and research (and a few crowd-funding campaigns). There are other species in CR which have gone recently "missing," extinct, or are very rarely found, several of which should be within striking distance of Golden Toad habitat (wasn't Bufo holdridgei found in Monteverde?). I would be interested in funding a survey of under-explored sites looking generally for very rare or "missing" species, with the goal of petitioning governments, NGO's, universities, etc. to step in and protect/buy habitats. You could still have Golden Toad as your flagship species, but for me this would be more attractive than funding a concentrated search for one species that has been gone for 25 years.

You mention that you plan to document and not collect, but I think your backers might like to know in more detail what will happen once you rediscover the toad, even if you aren't funding or facilitating that yourselves. For instance, maybe you know some people or organizations who would have money or plans in place to start some sort of rescue or start buying land parcels, or you might contact amphibian breeders or zoos or animal arks - just so people feel there is some sort of continuum between their funding of your expedition and the hopefully continued survival of the toads. You do a good job of outlining the rest of the details of your project, but that "what happens next" question leaves us hanging.

Lastly (and this is probably something that you and every other crowd-fundee debates and agonizes over), my feeling is that it's probably best to ask for less money than you need, especially given the risky nature of the project. You should mention that this is a big expedition with a lot of costs, but I wouldn't itemize and factor in things like flashlights, raincoats, and every other small expense. I'd itemize the top 4 or 5 expenses, and then just say that anything you raise over that amount will go towards food, gear, batteries, whatever. That way people really feel like you are already shouldering a burden, and their dollars are needed.
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Don Cascabel
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Don Cascabel »

Did you guys see this part?

Our Team: Ginny Weatherman, Christoph Grünwald, Jacobo Reyes Velasco, Ivan Ahumada Carrillo, Nadia Pérez Rivera, Jason Jones

Biography: We have spent the last 12 years researching the Reptiles and Amphibians of México, with special emphasis in the states of Baja California Norte, Sonora, Sinaloa, Jalisco, Durango, Michoacán, Colima, Coahuila, San Luis Potosí and Chiapas. We were the team responsible for rediscovering the "lost to science" rattlesnake Crotalus lannomi, we were also the first ones to get a live Colima Hog-nosed Pitviper, Porthidium hespere, in over 30 years. Furthermore, we have discovered a new rattlesnake in the states of Michoacán, México, Morelos and Guerrero which is in press as we speak. We are working on describing seven new species of frogs from W. México. We have added over 30 species to the known reptiles and amphibians in the state of Colima, about a dozen species to the known species from the state of Jalisco, and have published in total over 50 new state records or range extensions. This year (2013) we have spent more time in Mesoamerica, focusing on Chiapas. There we have discovered several frog populations which are probably new species, we rediscovered animals at an old locality for Green Palm Pitviper, Bothriechis rowleyi, and we have discovered new previously unknown populations of Mountain Pitviper, Cerrophidion godmani and the Golden Palm Pitviper, Bothriechis aurifer.

Ginny N. Weatherman - Field Photography Specialist and Public Relations Representative. Ginny holds a degree in Fine Arts from the University of Kansas, as well a minor in Biology. Ginny has worked on field projects throughout the United States and México, with well known Biologists such as Joe Collins and John Campbell.

Christoph I. Grünwald - Field Research Coordinator. Based out of Guadalajara, México, Christoph has led field expeditions across the United States and Mexico, focusing on all types of reptiles and amphibians in hard to access or dangerous territory. He has participated in the planning and execution of all our team's successful herpetological discoveries and has extensive experience in the field in all types of biomes and under a wide range of situations.

Jacobo Reyes Velasco - Herpetologist and Laboratory Expert, based out of the University of Texas at Arlington. Jacobo has a bachelor's degree from the University of Guadalajara, and is working towards his doctorate at UTA. He has participated in dozens of our team's field projects around México and has been the driving force behind publishing our teams findings in scientific journals, as well as analyzing our specimen and samples collected in the laboratory.

Robert Hansen - Bob is well known Herpetologists and an icon in the Reptile enthusiast community. Editor of Herpetological Review, Bob has one of the largest libraries of Herpetological literature in North America and is a major contributor to our team of knowledge, experience and networking.

Ivan Ahumada Carrillo - Ivan holds a degree in Biology from the University of Guadalajara, and currently works as a Herpetologist for a Eco-consulting firm in Guadalajara, México. Ivan has an immense amount of field experience with reptiles and amphibians around México, and his wide knowledge of biogeography has been paramount to our team's trip planning and successes.

Nadia Pérez Rivera - Nadia holds a Biology degree from the University of Science & Arts of Chiapas, based in Tuxtla Gutierréz. Her major is working with mammals, however her field experience working in rain forests, cloud forests and similar meso-american biomes is paramount for this expedition.

Jason Jones - Based out of Colima, México, Jason is an experienced Field Herpetologist with more than a decade working in the field in México and the Southwestern United States. He is a technology specialist, who will provide us with technical assistance while our team is in the field, as well as assisting with web based updates of our progress and successes.

That comes up when you click on the HEART logo on the right hand side.

As Troy mentioned, we could become "Research Associates" at any number of Universities if we wanted to. Not sure that would help the project, it sure didn't on other projects we've done. I believe Jacobo, Bob and Ivan are listed, though I'm not sure on the last two. As for contacting Ticos... we have already reached out to them, and are working on including them. They are interested. It is not a paid vacation, we are actually going to have to all take time off from our work to pull this off. Searching for this kind of thing is rarely a vacation, with Crotalus lannomi we spent over $15,000 dollars of our own money, got shot at, I got a 8 month foot infection, two of us almost got mauled by a cougar and I lost a truck over it. This summer, in Chiapas, I lost a 2011 4runner, spent three days in jail and spent $7,000 dollars in legal fees. Not exactly a vacation guys... a vacation would be more like: I am going to Costa Rica guys, visiting the whole country, herping every day and let's see what I find! The reason we are doing the Golden Toad and not something more Mexican, is because of the exposure finding this frog will get. The next projects are going to be stuff that is less high profile and arguable more important, such as five "missing Abronia" (that's project 2) and six missing Plectrohyla (that's project 3).

I will get more info explaining H.E.A.R.T. on there over the next few days, as this criticism is constructive and the input is golden.

As for the other questions. Marty has not been back to Monteverde to look for toads since they disappeared in 1990. That came straight from another researcher who is friends with her. Alan may or may not have searched for them, but hasn't published anything to the respect. I have tried to contact him. EVERYONE I have asked, does not know of anyone who has looked for them during their breeding season. As far as access goes, we are working on that as well. There are so many different spots we plan on checking at this point, that access will not be an issue in most cases. Permitting, it is not necesarry to get permits in Costa Rica to photograph an amphibian. We are NOT COLLECTING anything. So we do not need a permit for that. If we find the toad, we will photograph if and take GPS and turn that info over to the Costa Rican Amphibian researchers from the UCR. That's it... We aren't giving the coords to anyone else.

Cheers,

Chris Gruenwald
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cbernz
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by cbernz »

troy hibbitts wrote:Andy,

Your constructive criticism sounded like "how do you guys expect anyone to donate to you 'cause you're not academics" rather than "you guys really need to clarify things on your website in order to have a better chance of successfully generating your funds".

$15K is not a LOT of money, actually. Some advertising at herp expos, on forums, and in magazines (if they'd donate the space) and I wouldn't be surprised if he comes up with it.

I do agree that he needs to do a better job of selling the organization, though.

Troy
I think Andy was trying to speak through the voice of an outsider. I agree that there will be some people who won't contribute to projects that don't have credentials or big names attached, but the beauty of Kickstarter is that it is a way for unknown, un-credentialed people to fund projects that may be a bit outside the mainstream and wouldn't otherwise get funded. The sense I get is that the extent to which strangers will give money to such projects has surprised pretty much everyone, even the founders.

Conversely, if one wanted to see a group of credentialed researchers backed by big-name organizations spending tons of money on a fruitless project, one need look no further than a certain famous science department at a certain northeastern university looking for a certain wood-loving bird.
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klawnskale
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by klawnskale »

Since you utilize a photo of Joaquin Guzman as your avatar, have you approached any local "capo de la droga" for handouts? Or are the interest
rates just far too high? If you are going to reach out to the public for funding, you need to also take into account how the public perceives you. Utilize the social media to convey a constructive positive image; not an association with druglords and creeps. A quick look at some of your Facebook Pages indicates a complete lack of professionalism and no sign of any seriousness regarding your alleged research capabilities. If it was easy for me to lurk on FB and get that first impression, what makes you think another person would not be prompted to do the same because they want to know for sure their money is being used for a good cause. Either change your privacy settings on your FB pages or set up new pages that convey yourselves as serious herp researchers with constructive intentions minus the personal relationships, gripes and braggadocio. (constructive criticism from one who's worked in the Media Industry for 2 decades).
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Crotalus »

What should a researcher's Facebook profile look like? :)

I've been in the field with tons of "professional" researchers, and if I had to put my money on someone to find a toad, I'd put it on Chris. Is he conventional? Of course not. But he repeatedly succeeds where "conventional" researchers have consistently failed. If we could just get him a PR manager he'd be all set :)

-Jason Jones
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Andy Avram
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Andy Avram »

The ask is for $15,000. That seems like a significant amount of money to fund raise, but maybe Troy is right and it isn't.

So the question now is (which Klawnscale and I are trying to point out) who are you expecting to donate towards the cause?
Write your request for money to that person. Anticipate their motives and desires to donate their hard-earned money and pander to that. Certainly clean-up your FB profile and online image. You are likely to lose more money by looking less than professional that you are to gain from it. Many people who donate are savy and are going to research where their money is going.

This money request should be written so a random photographer (it is in the photography section of Kickstarter) or a bored person looking to donate towards an interesting cause would feel confident that you aren't going to just live it up in CR for a few weeks on their dime. Unless you think that you'll be able to make it all from herpers who already know some of your story.
Write it so that Ginny's Aunt's neighbor who sees it linked on FB believes it is worthwhile.
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by hellihooks »

Perhaps... if more effort had been given to building the Mex. Chapter into a prominent asset/feature of the Nafha... you would have more luck soliciting funds from Nafha/FHF members... just saying... jim
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by justinm »

hellihooks wrote:Perhaps... if more effort had been given to building the Mex. Chapter into a prominent asset/feature of the Nafha... you would have more luck soliciting funds from Nafha/FHF members... just saying... jim

That's constructive isn't it? Would your broke ass have donated if they did, Jim? Do you think the leadership appreciates it when you speak for NAFHA?

I know Jacobo and Ginny and think that they're pretty awesome. A picture that Jacobo took of a Hognosed Viper hangs in my snake room. I would love to dump a truck of money into this, but I just don't have those funds to do it. I wish you luck and will donate what little I can to help you guys make a go of it. I do hope you find the animal that has become the symbol of extinction in my times.

Justin Michels
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klawnskale
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by klawnskale »

Interesting. I wasn't aware that the quality 'awesome' is an outstanding one to base charitable contributions. What happened to the concept of acquiring gainful,honest employment and stashing a bit away each month for a noble goal? That's what most people used to do. From the research I have gathered so far, only one of the individuals of this self appointed team appears to be gainfully employed. This is the age of the slacker. This is how
'crowd funding' evolved. Why work for it when perhaps you can possibly rely on the unquestionable generosity of others. I understand that it is a very human trait to take the path of least resistance and as little sweat equity output as possible. But it doesn't earn my respect. Since they are requesting a
considerable sum of money, transparency of information about the recipients is critical. I don't see that here.
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by hellihooks »

Justin...
I personally respect all those guys, and their goals, and while I'm not currently in a position to offer any support... if I could, I would.
No one knows better than I, how generous the members of these forums can be... and my point was that had a stronger affiliation been built, it (most likely) would have produced a more robust response from our membership.
The Mex. Chapter has 2 members listed for it's forum (which actually according to the bylaws, shouldn't even still exist). But hey... never too late (hopefully) for our neighbors to the south to better utilize the resource Nafha has provided... and nothing would please me more than to see Nafha actually become a North American Association, rather than just a U.S. concern... :thumb:

So yes... a CONSTRUCTIVE criticism... meant to help, not hurt. jim
Edit... I'm not speaking for the Nafha, but rather, from a personal perspective. I'd have lost my home if it were not for the (unsolicited) generosity of FHF/Nafha members... which wouldn't have happened were I not an active member of both groups.
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by chad ks »

If I had extra money to donate to any charity organization or worthwhile pursuit, I would give it to this project. In fact I might soon enough, and if that time comes I'll be contributing something. If any group of herpers could ever rediscover anything, I think it's this one.

I hope you guys raise the funds quickly, and I think you will. Keep up the good work!
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Don Cascabel
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by Don Cascabel »

Chad:

You could help us a ton just by spreading the word! Even to neighbors and non-herp friends!

Tomorrow we have an interview with a Costa Rican newspaper, and we've already been contacted by a person who thinks she saw a Golden Toad, so the project is already taking some interesting turns.

Will post more on this later!

Cheers,

Chris
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by TimCO »

Crotalus wrote:What should a researcher's Facebook profile look like? :)

I've been in the field with tons of "professional" researchers, and if I had to put my money on someone to find a toad, I'd put it on Chris. Is he conventional? Of course not. But he repeatedly succeeds where "conventional" researchers have consistently failed. If we could just get him a PR manager he'd be all set :)

-Jason Jones

I think JJ nailed it.
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by justinm »

klawnskale wrote:Interesting. I wasn't aware that the quality 'awesome' is an outstanding one to base charitable contributions. What happened to the concept of acquiring gainful,honest employment and stashing a bit away each month for a noble goal? That's what most people used to do. From the research I have gathered so far, only one of the individuals of this self appointed team appears to be gainfully employed. This is the age of the slacker. This is how
'crowd funding' evolved. Why work for it when perhaps you can possibly rely on the unquestionable generosity of others. I understand that it is a very human trait to take the path of least resistance and as little sweat equity output as possible. But it doesn't earn my respect. Since they are requesting a
considerable sum of money, transparency of information about the recipients is critical. I don't see that here.

Klawnsnake, I'm not sure what your agenda is here? I've never, not once seen you post any pictures or discussion about your own field herping. So what is your motivation to even be on this site? To troll and make posts that you feel are intellectually superior? If you want to think you're smart that's great (you seem to think you are), the people that know me know that I'm no fool. In answer to your question, I know what Jacobo has done and who's he's studied under. He's awesome if you ask me, but you've not taken anytime to get to know who he is have you? If I want to donate to anything that's my decision and if I want to tell others that I'm willing to donate I don't think it's fair for you to attack me or the charity. In other words F#*k off already.


Justin Michels
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by hellihooks »

I wish there was more than just 24 days left to donate. I'm anticipating an increase in income soon... but not quite that soon. Coincidently enough, my new job (hopefully) will be caretaking of 2400 acres of Arroyo Toad habitat, but as a 'live-in' job, it's 24/7, and will probably curtail my ability to do attempt to do anything 'noteworthy' in the field.
I therefore (now) feel that supporting others to do what I won't be able to do (and most assuredly better than I ) is a good thing to do, and have confidence that Chris et al and their goals are worth supporting. I'll see what I can do... :thumb:
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by klawnskale »

Klawnsnake, I'm not sure what your agenda is here? I've never, not once seen you post any pictures or discussion about your own field herping. So what is your motivation to even be on this site? To troll and make posts that you feel are intellectually superior? If you want to think you're smart that's great (you seem to think you are), the people that know me know that I'm no fool. In answer to your question, I know what Jacobo has done and who's he's studied under. He's awesome if you ask me, but you've not taken anytime to get to know who he is have you? If I want to donate to anything that's my decision and if I want to tell others that I'm willing to donate I don't think it's fair for you to attack me or the charity. In other words F#*k off already.


Justin Michels[/quote]

Justin:
No one is stopping you from donating to whatever cause you feel is worthy. I am well aware of the accomplishments of some of the individuals doing the asking. I just don't understand why you are expressing personal offense to my commentary. It wasn't directed solely at you. But I will not apologize for my opinions. I know of hardworking researchers out there that are having a bear of a time getting any kind of funding for their projects which are noteworthy as well. I just personally would not donate to the chasing of chimeras. I have posted herping entries if you check the archives.
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by jason folt »

Just saw this post. An admirable cause.

I think people are missing the point though. The criticism about a squeaky clean image is spot on, yet people get mocked. They don't need to turn into academic ivory tower types, but they need to look the part when asking for free money. They won't raise this money just from herpers. They have been up on kickstarter almost a week, with very little money raised. It's looking unlikely to happen in the next 3 weeks unless there is a large snow ball effect.

They need to reach out to the masses and present an official image. FHF might know they are stand up people and great in the field, but the general public won't. Last I checked we aren't donated hundreds or thousands of dollars. There are so many opportunities for free marketing with twitter, nature bloggers, etc that could help reach the masses and appeal to the nonherpers out there, but you gotta act the part.

Jason
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by hellihooks »

just out of curiosity... what will happen to money donated, if the goal is not reached, and the trip doesn't happen? :?: jim
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by cbernz »

I had another thought. Something that might be really useful for fundraising and just raising awareness in general is a video. Introduce yourselves, talk a bit about the projects you've worked on, the ones you have coming up, have some footage of yourselves in the field, in the lab, dealing with animals, talking about the importance of conservation and how and why people should become involved - 2 or 3 minutes should be plenty. It'll take some time and money to do, but I think it's well worth it. Voices and images often speak louder than print. If you have a youtube channel, you can put videos up and have a link to your kickstarter page.
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by hellihooks »

Maybe Scott Waters could do a piece on Herp Nation Live, or you could interview on Dan Krull's Herping radio program?
Disregard if these ideas are already in play... i'm often the last to know... well, anything, really... :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: jim
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by SurfinHerp »

I just made a pledge in support of the project.

I wish I could put up the $5,000 and take one of the two Project Participant spots, but my wife says it's not gonna happen. You guys probably wouldn't want me anyhow (I'd find all the toads :lol: )

Good luck!

Jeff
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Re: New Field Project aimed at rediscovering the Golden Toad

Post by justinm »

Since the project didn't meet it's goal on kickstarter. I thought I would add a little hope to this team.


Rediscovery of a “Lost” Andean Toad after 43 year disappearance

http://www.amphibians.org/news/andinophryne-discovery
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