I am hoping some of the Oligodon experts out there could help me with an ID on the snakes in the pictures below. Unfortunately there is no locality data, so I understand that could make things a little more difficult, but I appreciate any input you may have.
This is a young female
This is a larger male
It was suggested that they were O. purpurescens, but based on pictures I've seen on the web I suspect they may be something else (O. chinensis?, O. cyclurus?, O. fasciolatus?).
Thanks,
Sam
Oligodon experts needed
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- Sam Bacchini
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
Not purpurescens, chinensis or fasciolatus.
I'd say you're good to go with Oligodon cyclurus cyclurus, although my field guides are in the car and it's pouring with rain.
I'd say you're good to go with Oligodon cyclurus cyclurus, although my field guides are in the car and it's pouring with rain.
- Sam Bacchini
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
Thanks for the information. What field guides do you use? Are there any keys to the genus?
Can you tell me anything about their maximum size, habitat, etc. I have some general information on those subjects but if there is anything specific I'd love to have it.
Thanks!
Can you tell me anything about their maximum size, habitat, etc. I have some general information on those subjects but if there is anything specific I'd love to have it.
Thanks!
Re: Oligodon experts needed
I have the oldest edition of 'Snakes and other Reptiles of Thailand and South-East Asia' by Merel J. Cox, Peter Paul Van Djik etc. But the best for Oligodon would be 'Reptiles of S.E Asia' by Indraneil Das.
Maximum size? Only a little over 100cm, most stay below 70cm. Indeed, why would they need size with a diet consisting primarily of reptile eggs? Eggs which they find by digging in the soil, meaning most Kukri Snake species are rarely seen. Nearly all Oligodon are nocturnal.
Habitat, for the most part, consists of tropical, subtropical and monsoon forests, although some can survive in cultivated habitat and scrub/grassland. They occur throughout southern and Eastern Asia, from Java and Bali to India.
Their name 'Kukri Snake' comes from the fact that they possess these two huge teeth, used for slicing open eggs, shaped like the Ghurka 'Kukri Knife'. Kukris have been know to tear apart leather gloves people have used to handle them and if a larger specimen gets you then those teeth can leave deep wounds, making serious scars.
All non-venomous, but their saliva contains an anticoagulant which makes bite wounds bleed a ton!
There are over 30 species described in my Das field guide, but I'm not sure of the total number of species. Some have only recently been described and I know a spot where you can, on occasion, find an un-described species of Oligodon. I think that when I do my Herp degree, I might go there and make it a new, published species.
Two nights ago I found an very rare species of Oligodon, but now I'm just rambling.
That's just some stuff of the top of my head and I'm definitely not an Oligodon expert. I'm sure you can find some interesting facts in online literature.
Cheers,
Rupert
Maximum size? Only a little over 100cm, most stay below 70cm. Indeed, why would they need size with a diet consisting primarily of reptile eggs? Eggs which they find by digging in the soil, meaning most Kukri Snake species are rarely seen. Nearly all Oligodon are nocturnal.
Habitat, for the most part, consists of tropical, subtropical and monsoon forests, although some can survive in cultivated habitat and scrub/grassland. They occur throughout southern and Eastern Asia, from Java and Bali to India.
Their name 'Kukri Snake' comes from the fact that they possess these two huge teeth, used for slicing open eggs, shaped like the Ghurka 'Kukri Knife'. Kukris have been know to tear apart leather gloves people have used to handle them and if a larger specimen gets you then those teeth can leave deep wounds, making serious scars.
All non-venomous, but their saliva contains an anticoagulant which makes bite wounds bleed a ton!
There are over 30 species described in my Das field guide, but I'm not sure of the total number of species. Some have only recently been described and I know a spot where you can, on occasion, find an un-described species of Oligodon. I think that when I do my Herp degree, I might go there and make it a new, published species.
Two nights ago I found an very rare species of Oligodon, but now I'm just rambling.
That's just some stuff of the top of my head and I'm definitely not an Oligodon expert. I'm sure you can find some interesting facts in online literature.
Cheers,
Rupert
- Kevin Messenger
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
There is a key to the genus. The MS thesis by Marc David Green:
Molecular phylogeny of the snake genus Oligodon (Serpentes: Colubridae), with an Annotated Checklist and Key.
It is too bad the forum doesn't have a way to upload files.
There are 70 species in the genus as of 2010. Pretty sure that number has gone up since then
Molecular phylogeny of the snake genus Oligodon (Serpentes: Colubridae), with an Annotated Checklist and Key.
It is too bad the forum doesn't have a way to upload files.
There are 70 species in the genus as of 2010. Pretty sure that number has gone up since then
- Kevin Messenger
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
O. cyclurus:
Scalation: Nasal divided. 2 internasals. loreal present. two preoculars. 1 a subocular, rarely absent. 2 postoculars. 8, sometimes 7, supralabials. 4 and 5, or 3 and 4 in contact with eye. 9 infralabials. dorsal scales in 19 rows at mid-body. Anal undivided.
Comments: Oligodon cyclurus is a member of the "cyclurus-group," which also includes O. chinensis, O. formosanus, O. fasciolatus, O. ocellatus, and O. saintgironsi. The group is defined primarily on hemipenial condition.
Scalation: Nasal divided. 2 internasals. loreal present. two preoculars. 1 a subocular, rarely absent. 2 postoculars. 8, sometimes 7, supralabials. 4 and 5, or 3 and 4 in contact with eye. 9 infralabials. dorsal scales in 19 rows at mid-body. Anal undivided.
Comments: Oligodon cyclurus is a member of the "cyclurus-group," which also includes O. chinensis, O. formosanus, O. fasciolatus, O. ocellatus, and O. saintgironsi. The group is defined primarily on hemipenial condition.
- Sam Bacchini
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
Perfect! Thanks to both of you, that's exactly the kind of information I was hoping for! As I said I do have a bit of general information on these guys, but I knew I could get much more detailed info from the Field Herp Forum community if I put out the word.
Kevin, I take it you agree with Rupert that they are not O. purpurescens, or am I reading too much into your response? If I were to send you my email address is the MS thesis you referred to something you could email to me?
Rupert, I actually just ordered the Das fieldguide so I am glad to hear that is the best readily available guide to use.
In case you were wondering these are captive animals I recently acquired. I've been intrigued with this genus for some time and had an opportunity to experiment with a pair. Interestingly they have been taking fuzzy mice quite readily (though not with me watching them).
Thanks again Rupert and Kevin,
Sam
Kevin, I take it you agree with Rupert that they are not O. purpurescens, or am I reading too much into your response? If I were to send you my email address is the MS thesis you referred to something you could email to me?
Rupert, I actually just ordered the Das fieldguide so I am glad to hear that is the best readily available guide to use.
In case you were wondering these are captive animals I recently acquired. I've been intrigued with this genus for some time and had an opportunity to experiment with a pair. Interestingly they have been taking fuzzy mice quite readily (though not with me watching them).
Thanks again Rupert and Kevin,
Sam
- Kevin Messenger
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
yeah, send me a PM with an email and I'll attach the PDF of the thesis.
- billysbrown
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
A few years ago I went through an Oligodon phase and read everything I could about them, but never got my hands on any. Someone in Florida I connected with who kept a formosanus noted that they would drink beaten chicken egg from a water dish. A keeper in (I think) the Netherlands who worked with purpurascens warned me about the teeth - they can slice your thumb as well as a snake egg, said they took mice of apprppriate size, but that feeding them can get bloody, again because of the teeth.
Enjoy them, they are neat snakes,
Billy
Enjoy them, they are neat snakes,
Billy
- Kevin Messenger
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
here's a bite Dan suffered from a O. formosanus that was probably just a bit longer than 12"
- Sam Bacchini
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
That's a lot of blood for a 12 inch snake.
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Re: Oligodon experts needed
Hi, these are definitely O. purpurascnes (brown form). I kept this species for a long time and did some scientific research on colour pattern dimorphism in this species. All the best, Johan. I have some publications if you wish