Tantilla relicta pamlica, the Coastal Dunes Crowned Snake. Couldn't wait 3 months for my next report to post it
I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
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- Josh Holbrook
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- Carl Brune
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Nice. I've had generally bad luck finding snakes in Florida, but this is one form that I have managed to see:
When I posted this back in 2007 nobody said "nice find" or anything so I figured they were common.
When I posted this back in 2007 nobody said "nice find" or anything so I figured they were common.
Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Nice find, both of you! After Josh mentioned he found one Carl's photo was one of the few I turned up on the net. This snake's snout appears very 'pointed' compared to other members of the genus, or even other T. relicta, I've seen. Is that a defining characteristic for the subspecies?
-Jb
-Jb
- Josh Holbrook
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Carl - no, it's a superb find; but it's probable that no one realized it. As far as I can tell, fewer herpers have seen this subspecies than South Florida Mole Kingsnakes or Rim Rock Crowned Snakes - but, of course fewer people target them. Great find though; and I guess a correction on my premature calling mine the first posted on the forum.
Jason - According to FLMNH the snout is one of the diagnostics: "Description: Average adult size is 7-8.5 inches (17.7-21.5 cm). Adults are tannish to reddish-brown with a black head, chin, and back of neck. There is a light band on the back of the head. The snout is pointed and labial scales are lighter colored than the head. The belly is uniform white to yellowish-pink. The scales are smooth, and there are 15 dorsal scale rows at midbody. The pupil is round. Juveniles are similar to adults."
That's two herps you need to come down to PB County to see. I'm reasonably confident that one could turn up more where I found it with relatively minimal effort.
Jason - According to FLMNH the snout is one of the diagnostics: "Description: Average adult size is 7-8.5 inches (17.7-21.5 cm). Adults are tannish to reddish-brown with a black head, chin, and back of neck. There is a light band on the back of the head. The snout is pointed and labial scales are lighter colored than the head. The belly is uniform white to yellowish-pink. The scales are smooth, and there are 15 dorsal scale rows at midbody. The pupil is round. Juveniles are similar to adults."
That's two herps you need to come down to PB County to see. I'm reasonably confident that one could turn up more where I found it with relatively minimal effort.
Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Nice pix. I was lucky enough to find 4 of these in St. Lucie county during early Jan 1994. All were under surface debris on cool, sunny days near the north fork of the St. Lucie river- Dave
- Dell Despain
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Excellent Josh, love all the Tantilla subspecies for some reason. Most other herpers tease me for my interest in Tantilla.
I could be wrong but I believe Tim Borski has a great desire to find [/i]pamlica[/i].
Nice job, and like the photo too. Keep up the good work.
-Dell
I could be wrong but I believe Tim Borski has a great desire to find [/i]pamlica[/i].
Nice job, and like the photo too. Keep up the good work.
-Dell
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Congratulations, Josh.
- Carl Brune
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Thanks for the info, Josh. I agree with Dell, all forms of Tantilla are quite interesting.
Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Josh - You're right. A trip to your neck of the woods is overdue. Hopefully I can head south next winter. Nice job, again. How close are you to seeing every herp known from PB?
Tantilla are fascinating. I'm hoping to turn up a Kentucky specimen some day. Has anyone ever seen Tantilla supracincta? Google them; gorgeous animals. I suspect they're mimics of Micrurus clarki.
Tantilla are fascinating. I'm hoping to turn up a Kentucky specimen some day. Has anyone ever seen Tantilla supracincta? Google them; gorgeous animals. I suspect they're mimics of Micrurus clarki.
- Dell Despain
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Jason, I've never seen T. supracincta before, beautiful & they're huge too. Thanks for the suggestion to look it up. Good luck w/ the Tantilla coronata search. I wish I could offer some advice on how to target Tantilla, they've always shown up as a byproduct searching for milks for me. Which might be a small bit of advice.
-Dell
-Dell
Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Supracincta I have seen...
Though I live in Brevard and would love to turn up some of the other species. Who wants to go on a search?
When I lived in the keys we actively set up pit fall traps and flipped for oolitica, but never turned up one either.
Though I live in Brevard and would love to turn up some of the other species. Who wants to go on a search?
When I lived in the keys we actively set up pit fall traps and flipped for oolitica, but never turned up one either.
Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Sweet find, but I don't know anyone that finds T. oolitica by targeting them. Also, I think you meant taxon, taxa is the plural form.
- Josh Holbrook
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Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
Dave - Cool deal. I get the feeling they may not be uncommon is the right habitat; but I'm not quite sure.
Dell - Yeah, I share your enjoyment of the centipede-eaters. Tim is actually koo-koo for oolitica, not pamlica.
Green Snake Man - I wouldn't target right on the coast, personally - perhaps within 10 miles of the coast in sandy habitat. Supposedly they'll inhabit hammocks too.
Thanks Tamara.
Jason - Hurry up, I'm going to try to move father north as soon as I graduate, which may be as soon as next December. I think I've found just about everything found in the county, just not necessarily in the county (even this guy was found one county north, in Martin.) If I find everything to find within striking distance (i.e. a mole king and oolitica) I may start lifelisting the county. Just googled supracincta - no pictures but a nice painting of one. In reguards to your local tantilla, I know in IL they find em' under cover on rocky bluffs.
SDBeazley - Look me up if you want to get out herping: I go out quite a bit (every weekend typically.) How in the heck did you put pitfalls in the Keys with all the limestone?
Nate - I can think of at least 2 people who found oolitica by targeting em'. And noted on the latin - I get confused when I shoot from the hip sometimes.
Dell - Yeah, I share your enjoyment of the centipede-eaters. Tim is actually koo-koo for oolitica, not pamlica.
Green Snake Man - I wouldn't target right on the coast, personally - perhaps within 10 miles of the coast in sandy habitat. Supposedly they'll inhabit hammocks too.
Thanks Tamara.
Jason - Hurry up, I'm going to try to move father north as soon as I graduate, which may be as soon as next December. I think I've found just about everything found in the county, just not necessarily in the county (even this guy was found one county north, in Martin.) If I find everything to find within striking distance (i.e. a mole king and oolitica) I may start lifelisting the county. Just googled supracincta - no pictures but a nice painting of one. In reguards to your local tantilla, I know in IL they find em' under cover on rocky bluffs.
SDBeazley - Look me up if you want to get out herping: I go out quite a bit (every weekend typically.) How in the heck did you put pitfalls in the Keys with all the limestone?
Nate - I can think of at least 2 people who found oolitica by targeting em'. And noted on the latin - I get confused when I shoot from the hip sometimes.
Re: I believe this is the first for this taxa on the forum
There was a small FWC project looking for shrews in Key Largo (side benefit Tantilla) which set up some some small X transects in the areas which had more detritus accumulated a top the rocks. The buckets had to be shallow in order to allow cotton mice and woodrats to escape. On the last night of a two week experiment they finally got a shrew, but nothing else of interest in the buckets. I know USGS can't use pitfall for pythons down there, which is why they put out all of those cockamamie traps on the island and stretch.
I'm currently up near Jacksonville getting skunked left and right, but should be home in Melbourne soon. I would love to check out Lake Worth sometime.
I'm currently up near Jacksonville getting skunked left and right, but should be home in Melbourne soon. I would love to check out Lake Worth sometime.