In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

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intermedius
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In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

Could be another "Known from a single specimen" kind or herp or "Last recorded in 1985" or even "Only 130 exist in the wild now" herp. Lets see what you decide...
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monklet
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by monklet »

Good idea for a thread but the question seems a bit ambiguous as stated. What do you mean by "your rarest"? I would interpret this most literally to mean one that I own, but that's obviously not your intent. Next to that I would guess you mean, "what's the rarest herp I've found" ...but then I also doubt if that's what you mean. ...So, I assume you just mean what is tha rarest herp in my opinion?

So, I would rule out anything not documented for an agreed upon period of time. Then I would prioritize those which are presumed extant, but for which only one specimen has ever been documented. So, for that there are likely several or more. But, some of those are only undocumented due to lack of coverage of appropriate habitat within range due to whatever circumstances.

I believe at least one of the Mexican long-tailed rattlesnakes would fit the "only one ever documented in accessible habitat" ...but I'm sure there are many others.

There is another consideration somewhat different. What about a species that is not difficult to find but exists only in limited numbers within one population, especially if that population is deemed at risk. The Tuatara would be a good candidate in the regard as would be the Solomon Island Skink(s).

Anyway, I haven't given this too much thought and I'm probably missing some good question/categorizations etc.

Somehow I think this one could take off. There are so many great minds here and anyway you slice it, great topic :thumb: 8-) :D
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intermedius
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

monklet wrote:Good idea for a thread but the question seems a bit ambiguous as stated. What do you mean by "your rarest"? I would interpret this most literally to mean one that I own, but that's obviously not your intent. Next to that I would guess you mean, "what's the rarest herp I've found" ...but then I also doubt if that's what you mean. ...So, I assume you just mean what is tha rarest herp in my opinion?

So, I would rule out anything not documented for an agreed upon period of time. Then I would prioritize those which are presumed extant, but for which only one specimen has ever been documented. So, for that there are likely several or more. But, some of those are only undocumented due to lack of coverage of appropriate habitat within range due to whatever circumstances.

I believe at least one of the Mexican long-tailed rattlesnakes would fit the "only one ever documented in accessible habitat" ...but I'm sure there are many others.

There is another consideration somewhat different. What about a species that is not difficult to find but exists only in limited numbers within one population, especially if that population is deemed at risk. The Tuatara would be a good candidate in the regard as would be the Solomon Island Skink(s).

Anyway, I haven't given this too much thought and I'm probably missing some good question/categorizations etc.


Somehow I think this one could take off. There are so many great minds here and anyway you slice it, great topic :thumb: 8-) :D


Thanks, and sorry for the confusion :lol:. Spread the word, maybe it'll go on the board line or something? And what i was going for is spot on in what you said. Long-Tails aren't the only rare species out there. Plenty of other species are known from a single specimen.
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The Real Snake Man
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by The Real Snake Man »

T. rex. Once a dynamic part of the American landscape, they are now widely believed to be extinct. Finding one of those would be quite the herpetological achievement.
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intermedius
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

The Real Snake Man wrote:T. rex. Once a dynamic part of the American landscape, they are now widely believed to be extinct. Finding one of those would be quite the herpetological achievement.
lol nice :lol: :beer:
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by The Real Snake Man »

But in all seriousness, this question would probably be better stated as "What is the rarest herp in your area?" Simply asking for general opinions of the rarest taxon of herpetofauna will produce varied answers as monklet said above. As far as the rarest in the U.S. go, it would probably have to be either Eurycea robusta (the Blanco Blind Salamander, known from four specimens collected in 1951, and not seen since) or the Farancia erytrogramma seminola (South Florida Rainbow Snake, we all know the story).
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Coluber Constrictor »

There's some sort of Plethodon sp. salamander that's only known from one county in Mississippi, and is only known from a few specimens (and is probably now extinct).
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intermedius
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

Coluber Constrictor wrote:There's some sort of Plethodon sp. salamander that's only known from one county in Mississippi, and is only known from a few specimens (and is probably now extinct).
Nice! But outside the US and Mexico there are even more rare species. Lets see some more hands.
For Example- Cercophis auranus :D
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Reptiluvr »

Either a Copperbelly Water Snake (Nerodia erythrogaster neglecta) with its small range of disjunct populations or Spot-tailed Earless Lizard (Holbrookia lacerata), a county record.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Coluber Constrictor »

Oh, you mean there rarest I've seen personally? That would be the Black Pine Snake:

Image
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by monklet »

That Black Pine is somewhat enviable :mrgreen:
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Antonsrkn »

I interpret this as being the rarest herp that I have found/seen in the field.

I guess mine would have to be the Ricords Iguana (Cyclura ricordi), not difficult to see in the 1 area I saw it in but i would still classify it as a rare herp. Not least of all because it is so geographically restricted and is only found on a small portion of the island that the Dominican Republic and Haiti share. Population trends are decreasing and its listed as critically endangered.
Image
Some more facts from the IUCN redlist page:
a current population estimate of 2,000 to 4,000 ....
Ricord’s iguanas are quite specialized. Several key environmental factors, including soil depth and texture, landform, bedrock parental material, and climate seem to determine their presence. Ricord’s iguanas inhabit the most arid regions of the Dominican Republic, where the climate is highly seasonal.
I suppose the next rarest herp I have encountered is the Green Sea turtle (Chelonia mydas) which is listed as endangered but its not rare or hard to see in my experience so I wont post any photos.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Aaron »

The rarest herp I have ever found would probably be the California Mountain Kingsnake(Lampropeltis zonata). These are so rare the California Fish and Game Department has declared a bag/possesion limit of one.
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The Real Snake Man
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by The Real Snake Man »

Is that a mugitus? Wow!
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by ThatFrogGuy »

Coluber Constrictor wrote:There's some sort of Plethodon sp. salamander that's only known from one county in Mississippi, and is only known from a few specimens (and is probably now extinct).
Plethodon ainsworthi

Mine's not as much rare as it is secretive, but they have been declining in the area where it was found. Image
Eastern Tiger Salamander (Ambystoma tigrinum) by Zach Truelock, on Flickr
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Dave S
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Dave S »

Back in 1998 I saw a single Olm (Proteus anguinus). Crazy looking amphibian thing that lives only in 1 or 2 caves in Croatia.
Dave S.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by jimoo742 »

monklet wrote:Good idea for a thread but the question seems a bit ambiguous as stated. What do you mean by "your rarest"?
NO NOOOOOO Not this again! :shock:
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Owen
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Owen »

ThatFrogGuy wrote:
Coluber Constrictor wrote:There's some sort of Plethodon sp. salamander that's only known from one county in Mississippi, and is only known from a few specimens (and is probably now extinct).
Plethodon ainsworthi

Mine's not as much rare as it is secretive, but they have been declining in the area where it was found. Image
Eastern Tiger Salamander (Ambystoma tigrinum) by Zach Truelock, on Flickr
That's actually funny since these are invasives out here in California since they had been sold for bass (more invasives) bait.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by BDSkinner »

There are a ton of examples here. I know salamanders, which have their fair share of restricted ranges and specific needs. I heard someone say that Van Dyke's (Plethodon vandykei) is one of the rarest vertebrates we have in N America. Don't know how much that holds up.

I do like Bolitoglossa jacksoni in my opinion, but it sure isn't the only one.


-Brad
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by dery »

5 or so crocodylus acutus i found in one day in january of this year.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by gbin »

The rarest herps I've seen have been northcentral FL's short-tailed snake (which I guess is Lampropeltis extenuatum these days)...

Image

... and a few of the paedomorphic cave/spring Eurycea spp. of central TX. (I'll take a look at another computer later and see if I can find some pictures to share, though if I do they were likely taken for me rather than by me, while I was working with them - so maybe I should just ask Andy to chime in?... He's got way more experience with them than I do, anyway.)

Gerry
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Soopaman »

Rare isn't really the best term. It implies something that exists in exceptionally low quantities, and is hard to come by. I can think of no herp in my region for which this applies, other than the Louisiana Pine Snake. I've never found one of those, so I really can't say much about them.

In Texas, the timber rattlesnake can be an extremely difficult find, unless you know where to look. Even if you do, finding them in habitat is difficult, and with road cruising you're much more likely to find a dead one than a live one (2 out of 16 were alive this year).
Here's a photo:
Image
Crotalus horridus (Timber Rattlesnake) by Kyle L.E., on Flickr

Additionally, the tan racer is a difficult to find subspecies for many folks, and one that remains unchecked on a lot of life lists. I find them fairly easy to find, but many have considered them rare:
Image
Coluber constrictor etheridgei (Tan Racer) by Kyle L.E., on Flickr
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Ruxs »

This guy, because I've been trying for ages and still have no idea what he is!!!! Some kind of Cnemaspis I think.Image Found on the walls and in the cracks of this rocky/boulder area in the Rain-forested hills of Trang. They are always there, day and night but are easier to catch at night with an LED flashlight. Usually they look more green.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by dery »

gbin wrote:The rarest herps I've seen have been northcentral FL's short-tailed snake (which I guess is Lampropeltis extenuatum these days)...

Image

... and a few of the paedomorphic cave/spring Eurycea spp. of central TX. (I'll take a look at another computer later and see if I can find some pictures to share, though if I do they were likely taken for me rather than by me, while I was working with them - so maybe I should just ask Andy to chime in?... He's got way more experience with them than I do, anyway.)

Gerry
Ive always wanted to find a shorty. I feel better knowing you succeeded in finding one.
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Bryan Hamilton
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Bryan Hamilton »

Diadophis in Nevada. Extremely secretive and spottily distributed, which to me equals rare.
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gbin
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by gbin »

Soopaman wrote:Rare isn't really the best term. It implies something that exists in exceptionally low quantities, and is hard to come by...
It's a word that one needs to be careful with, all right. I always simply read it as "rarely encountered" and keep in mind that the reasons for that can vary.
dery wrote:Ive always wanted to find a shorty. I feel better knowing you succeeded in finding one.
Thanks! I was actually out at one of my favorite places for scarlet kings that afternoon, searching for them by slowly hiking along and scanning for any that might be active in the leaf litter on the forest floor. I suppose some folks might laugh at such an idea, but I've found a few of them that way; as with pretty much any species, you just have to get to know your quarry and tailor your hunting methods to fit. I threw a few visual neurons when I encountered that short-tail, instead! :lol: It's the only one I ever found, though I've since had a couple of people tell me that they're really not that tough to find within their very limited range.

Gerry
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Martti Niskanen »

Rarest I've seen was a Proteus anguinus.

Image
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by dery »

Finnaly a European sallie on FHF.Thank god :thumb:
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Andy Avram
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Andy Avram »

Dave S wrote:Back in 1998 I saw a single Olm (Proteus anguinus). Crazy looking amphibian thing that lives only in 1 or 2 caves in Croatia.
Dave S.
They are found naturally in a limited range that includes parts of Italy, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia. Introduced into a couple other locations. I think they are more readily viewed though in only 1 or 2 caves. Regardless, a very cool find. If I would have gone to Italy this year I would have considered trying for them.
dery wrote:Finnaly a European sallie on FHF.Thank god :thumb:
Many, many, many European salamanders have been posted on FHF over the years. In fact, I posted a Fire Salamander and Alpine Newt I found in Germany, just this past June. I believe one of the members here has seen all but a handful of the European herps and has posted many of them. A search should bring up some of these posts.

As for my rarest herps seen (which I think is a much better topic thread, then a general "what's the rarest", would probably be Eastern Hellbender or Eastern Massasauga.

Andy
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by dery »

gbin wrote:
Soopaman wrote:Rare isn't really the best term. It implies something that exists in exceptionally low quantities, and is hard to come by...
It's a word that one needs to be careful with, all right. I always simply read it as "rarely encountered" and keep in mind that the reasons for that can vary.
dery wrote:Ive always wanted to find a shorty. I feel better knowing you succeeded in finding one.
Thanks! I was actually out at one of my favorite places for scarlet kings that afternoon, searching for them by slowly hiking along and scanning for any that might be active in the leaf litter on the forest floor. I suppose some folks might laugh at such an idea, but I've found a few of them that way; as with pretty much any species, you just have to get to know your quarry and tailor your hunting methods to fit. I threw a few visual neurons when I encountered that short-tail, instead! :lol: It's the only one I ever found, though I've since had a couple of people tell me that they're really not that tough to find within their very limited range.

Gerry
Thanks gerry. I feel lucky now.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Brendan Murray »

I've heard these are extremely rare in the northeast. Felt good to finally add it to the lifelist.
Image
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dery
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by dery »

Andy Avram wrote:
Dave S wrote:Back in 1998 I saw a single Olm (Proteus anguinus). Crazy looking amphibian thing that lives only in 1 or 2 caves in Croatia.
Dave S.
They are found naturally in a limited range that includes parts of Italy, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia. Introduced into a couple other locations. I think they are more readily viewed though in only 1 or 2 caves. Regardless, a very cool find. If I would have gone to Italy this year I would have considered trying for them.
dery wrote:Finnaly a European sallie on FHF.Thank god :thumb:
Many, many, many European salamanders have been posted on FHF over the years. In fact, I posted a Fire Salamander and Alpine Newt I found in Germany, just this past June. I believe one of the members here has seen all but a handful of the European herps and has posted many of them. A search should bring up some of these posts.

As for my rarest herps seen (which I think is a much better topic thread, then a general "what's the rarest", would probably be Eastern Hellbender or Eastern Massasauga.

Andy
Yep. Just never saw one for myself on here as far as sallies go. :crazyeyes: :lol:
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intermedius
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

Brendan Murray wrote:I've heard these are extremely rare in the northeast. Felt good to finally add it to the lifelist.
Image

:lol: nice.
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intermedius
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

How bout stuff that you know is extremely rare (that you haven't found)

Example: Crotalus lannomi

Lets name some out!
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Andy Avram »

intermedius wrote:How bout stuff that you know is extremely rare (that you haven't found)

Example: Crotalus lannomi

Lets name some out!
Not that it makes that snake any less rare, but it was rediscovered a few years ago when 5 were captured in Mexico, by people that do or at least used to regularly post on this forum.

http://www.crotalus.com/Crotalus_lannom ... covery.pdf
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intermedius
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by intermedius »

Andy Avram wrote:
intermedius wrote:How bout stuff that you know is extremely rare (that you haven't found)

Example: Crotalus lannomi

Lets name some out!
Not that it makes that snake any less rare, but it was rediscovered a few years ago when 5 were captured in Mexico, by people that do or at least used to regularly post on this forum.

http://www.crotalus.com/Crotalus_lannom ... covery.pdf
Heard about it, just as a sample. And glad it got rediscovered. Just putting an example out.

Another Example: Atelopus sanjosei
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Chris Smith »

Incilius periglenes
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Kfen »

Rafetus swinhoei
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by scott s »

Lampropeltis catalinensis, the Santa Catalina Island kingsnake has to be one of the rarest if not THE rarest snake in the world.

Known by one specimen.

Hundreds of herpers have gone there to look for it and nobody has found one in over 50 years.
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Re: In your opinion, whats your rarest reptile or amphibian?

Post by Zach_Lim »

gbin wrote:The rarest herps I've seen have been northcentral FL's short-tailed snake (which I guess is Lampropeltis extenuatum these days)...

Image

... and a few of the paedomorphic cave/spring Eurycea spp. of central TX. (I'll take a look at another computer later and see if I can find some pictures to share, though if I do they were likely taken for me rather than by me, while I was working with them - so maybe I should just ask Andy to chime in?... He's got way more experience with them than I do, anyway.)

Gerry
:shock:
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