Can you identify this?

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scott.f
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Can you identify this?

Post by scott.f » April 11th, 2012, 5:17 am

This little (12" approx.) fellow showed up at my back door here in Guanacaste Costa Rica last night….

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Mike VanValen
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Mike VanValen » April 11th, 2012, 5:29 am

I believe that is Trimorphodon biscutatus.

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Dr. Dark
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Dr. Dark » April 11th, 2012, 6:32 am

I second that...a nice Lyresnake.

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gbin
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by gbin » April 11th, 2012, 10:16 am

Yup, a beautiful little lyre snake! Interesting how much its markings resemble those of the jumping pitviper (Atropoides nummifer), which is also found in Guanacaste, Costa Rica. Seems to me like lyre snake patterns often resemble those of some pitviper species that shares their range, e.g. Sonoran and especially Chihuahuan lyres can look an awful lot like banded rock rattlesnakes.

Gerry

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Sam Bacchini
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Sam Bacchini » April 11th, 2012, 4:01 pm

That's actually Trimorphodon quadruplex. T. biscutatus doesn't range down that far south (though it was included as a subspecies of biscutatus before the species complex was revised).

I found a DOR adult that was at least 5 feet long in the Guanacaste Province in 1988. I have been told by the breeder I got my CB pair from that they can get 7 feet long.

Here is a link to the revision of the species complex.

http://www.naherpetology.org/pdf_files/995.pdf

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Mike VanValen
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Mike VanValen » April 11th, 2012, 5:30 pm

...and tomorrow it will be biscutatus again. :lol:

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gbin
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by gbin » April 11th, 2012, 7:02 pm

Mike VanValen wrote:...and tomorrow it will be biscutatus again. :lol:
You think so, Mike? Personally, I thought it was long overdue when they elevated the Chihuahuan lyre (T. vilkinsonii) some years before the paper that gila-91 posted dealing with the whole group. I hope the division and elevations stick. I must admit that there was a reason I simply called Scott's snake "a beautiful little lyre snake" (and didn't name a specific species), though... ;)

Gerry

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Mike VanValen
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Mike VanValen » April 11th, 2012, 7:21 pm

gbin wrote: You think so, Mike? Personally, I thought it was long overdue when they elevated the Chihuahuan lyre (T. vilkinsonii) some years before the paper that gila-91 posted dealing with the whole group. I hope the division and elevations stick. I must admit that there was a reason I simply called Scott's snake "a beautiful little lyre snake" (and didn't name a specific species), though... ;)

Gerry
No, I don't really think the species will be sunk. I was just making a comment about the ever changing state of taxonomy. It is a beautiful snake.

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intermedius
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by intermedius » April 17th, 2012, 12:17 pm

Beautiful snake. They really try to look their best Bothrops, and Agkistrodon. :D . Taxonomy these days. . . . .

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Don Cascabel
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Don Cascabel » May 2nd, 2012, 9:31 pm

Judging by the paper that elevated it... IT WILL BE SUNK.

Nice T. biscutatus though... congrats!

Cheers,

Don Cascabel.

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JakeScott
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by JakeScott » May 3rd, 2012, 6:36 pm

It's out of focus so....I'd say Sasquatch.

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gbin
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by gbin » May 3rd, 2012, 6:39 pm

Don Cascabel wrote:Judging by the paper that elevated it... IT WILL BE SUNK.
Why do you say that, DC?

Gerry

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Don Cascabel
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Don Cascabel » May 3rd, 2012, 7:45 pm

Because several of the conclusions and subsequent taxonomical changes done in that paper for Mexico make no sense, neither biogeographically nor from what we have seen in the field. It is obvious that the conclusions were done without any actual field work put in and little knowledge of the subjects in the wild. That being said, overall I think I agree with elevating the Tx Lyre snake, and also with the northern "group" (Sinaloa north) being a different species than the southern "group" (Sinaloa south). The breaks and species they came up with though are dubious at best, at least for the Mexican stuff.

Cheers,

Don Cascabel.

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gbin
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by gbin » May 3rd, 2012, 7:55 pm

I'd love to hear your further thoughts about this sometime, though maybe it deserves its own thread? You know I'm especially interested in this group of snakes and I've never gotten to do anything with them outside of the U.S.

The Chihuahuan lyre snake (if you please ;) , as it is far more accurate and is the common name that's been put forth officially) was elevated in the paper prior to that larger treatment of the genus.

Gerry

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Don Cascabel
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Re: Can you identify this?

Post by Don Cascabel » May 7th, 2012, 7:23 pm

I have worked with this genus extensively in the field (usually as a by product of other targets), and I believe I have a rather extensive understanding of what is going on with them in general. I don't feel that the paper in mention hit the nail on the head, so to speak, as to the correct breaks in the "T. biscutatus" group, at least here in Mx. I would be happy to discuss it with you on Facebook or on here or by email if you are interested.

Cheers,

Don Cascabel

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