First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 2014

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Noah M
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First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 2014

Post by Noah M »

I think many of us are aware that the Audubon Society does their annual Christmas Bird Survey. Here is a blurb from their website about it.

The 114th Annual Audubon Christmas Bird Count will take place Dec 14, 2013 to January 5, 2014. The longest running Citizen Science survey in the world, Christmas Bird Count provides critical data on population trends. Tens of thousands of participants know that it is also a lot of fun. Data from the over 2,300 circles are entered after the count and become available to query under the Data & Research link.

Has anybody ever suggested that we as NAFHA do something similar?

Either way, I suggest the first week of June be the official NAFHA Field Herp Week with June 1st, 2014 being the kickoff day for this event. Even though HERP is now independent of NAFHA, my hope is that we as a group can add more vouchered records to HERP for that week than any other week in field herping history, perhaps with June 1st being the highest day in history. The Field Herp Week would run from June 1st - June 7th for 2014, and a new set of dates announced for 2015 would occur sometime in the future.

This should be really easy to organize & participate in. If you weren't already planning on herping that week, make plans to head out at least one day during that week. If you can't do a dedicated herping day, then try to voucher at least one herp during that week. We could 'advertise' this week and try to get as many people involved as possible. Network, talk with friends, organize an outing in your local area. This is a very decentralized approach.

I chose the first week of June so that hopefully our friends in northern parts of North America have a chance to participate. Plus many younger folks may be out of school at that time, and have the opportunity to get out into their neighborhood. I was originally thinking making it a 4th of July event, but that is a US holiday only, and I would like to invite all countries in North America to participate.

Thoughts, feedback, suggestions and cash donations ;) :thumb: are welcomed!

-Noah
Tamara D. McConnell
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Tamara D. McConnell »

I'm in. Sounds wonderful.
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dery
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by dery »

Count me in as well Noah. Tell me how to participate.
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Mike VanValen
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Mike VanValen »

Sweet idea :thumb:
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chris_mcmartin
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by chris_mcmartin »

Could potentially tie in with the Center for Snake Conservation's effort:

http://www.snakecount.snakeconservation.org/

Yes, that particular page is from 2012...perhaps an offer to "join forces" may prompt them to update the site... 8-)
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

That sounds good! I may try to get some local members of my chapter together for an outing.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

I've emailed the CSC. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by chrish »

that's funny. I was thinking the exact same thing just a few weeks ago.I think it is an idea we should certainly develop.

The only thing I might point out here is that the 3rd annual Sanderson snake days is the weekend before that starting on May 30th. We might want to consider expanding the herp count to include data people may take that week.

IIRC, the Christmas bird counts run for about three weeks, but you only count for one day.
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Noah M
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

The Audubon Society might do things a bit differently. Birds are, after all, a whole different animal. We don't have to do it the same way they do it. I would actually prefer to be a bit different. No need to go and exactly copy them. Plus, 3 weeks seems like a long time for the first time. I wanted to keep it to a week or less at least for the first time, and if this takes off and grows, we can address that when the time comes.

I didn't ever see any data being excluded. People can reporting findings to HERP and other databases as they normally would. Other organizations are going to do their own thing, and I support that, but I thought this would be an easy, straightforward way of organizing NAFHA across time, since we cannot always organize in space. IMO, it makes for putting together local events and outings much easier because there is a common element and time frame decided. It is an excuse to go herping, and maybe bring some people along that normally would not. A special occasion to herp.

Once we agree on dates, I plan to make a poster/flyer that I will share and we can distribute it as much or as little as any individual wants. This is again very decentralized.

I like the ideas- let's keep the conversation going. What would you like to see, or not see happen?
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Ted
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Ted »

I love the idea!

As someone who has participated in a Christmas Bird Count, however, I would love to see people grouping together for this. It's fine to do a bird count by yourself in your yard or something, but the real fun comes when you go out with a group that can share knowledge, ID skills, and experience. I know the bird count usually does it by county, though depending on the state that may or may not work.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

I too would love to see organized events, but it should be all inclusive. Those solitary herpers shouldn't be excluded. I'm kinda leaving it up to members to organize how they want.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Ted »

captainjack0000 wrote:I too would love to see organized events, but it should be all inclusive. Those solitary herpers shouldn't be excluded. I'm kinda leaving it up to members to organize how they want.
Makes perfect sense
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

I was thinking about making an 8.5"x11" 'poster' that I could post on here, and share as a file. I have my own pictures that I can use to represent the southeast US, but I would like photos of animals from NAFHA members representing this wonderful continent. So if you have any particularly stunning photos from NW Canada, NE Canada, North Mexico, South Mexico, and others parts of the US, please PM me and I will provide an email where you can send the file. I think the ideal would be to send photos of animals that could be (or should be) found during the Herp Week. If I'm feeling ambitious, I will make more than one 'poster' and we can pick the best one.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by TimCO »

I'm in.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by jonathan »

It could be a fun event to drum up participation, but I don't see it having much value in terms of year-to-year comparisons. Annual variations in weather conditions and who's participating will affect the numbers far more than the actual #'s of herps.

Not that I want to put a damper on a nice participation-encouraging idea, just setting realistic expectations.

That brings up the question for me though - what would be even an approximate way to get some sort of comparable count on a short term basis? Egg masses might work for some species. Maybe road crossings for migratory species if you could control for rain somehow? I'm having trouble thinking of something that could bring even close to as much consistency as counting birds.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by hellihooks »

If the Ca chapter HAD hosted the Nat. Meet in the Mojave this year... it (most likely) would have been May 30- June 1. I plan on camping that weekend, at the spot it would of been held at, in the Mojave to see how we would/could have done. So I should have some data to contribute, on 6-1. ;)

Our Christmas Bald Eagle count only counted 10 Eagles in the San Bernardino mts this year... most up at Big Bear (6) jim
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by chrish »

captainjack0000 wrote:The Audubon Society might do things a bit differently.........I would actually prefer to be a bit different. No need to go and exactly copy them. Plus, 3 weeks seems like a long time for the first time. I wanted to keep it to a week or less at least for the first time, and if this takes off and grows, we can address that when the time comes.
I wasn't proposing a three week count, simply that we expand the time window a little bit so that people all over the country can participate. For example, what if we said you have to do a 1 week count during 7 contiguous days sometime in between May 15 and June 15. There are a number of places in the country where mid May is still prime herping but June 1 is getting a bit past prime.
What if your count area gets heavy rains that week,...or they are scheduled for the week after the count?
Some places in the country can still have snow around the 1st of June.

I like the idea of a count week, but I think we have to be a bit more flexible regarding optimal times. Some areas are great in April, lousy in June. Other areas don't get good until after midsummer rains.
We could certainly do both and I support your count week idea completely.

Is it a contest? Do we see what count can get the highest diversity or numbers? If so, do we have to define the geographical boundaries of your count circle? I love these sort of contests.
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chrish
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by chrish »

jonathan wrote:It could be a fun event to drum up participation, but I don't see it having much value in terms of year-to-year comparisons. Annual variations in weather conditions and who's participating will affect the numbers far more than the actual #'s of herps.
I think the thing that is important about data is that you don't know its value until after you have it. There is concern that certain species are disappearing from certain areas (e.g. amphibs, horned lizards) or that invasive species are on the increase and outcompeting native species. Anyone who's been herping 10 or more years has probably seen change, but can you document it?

Imagine if you went out and as part of your count week you counted Leopard Frogs in your local marsh. If you did that for 10 years at the same time of year, you might be able to quantify subtle changes that are overlooked in more random samples.
Not that I want to put a damper on a nice participation-encouraging idea, just setting realistic expectations.
That's why we make it a contest. The goal isn't to change the world during 1 week, just to gather data.
That brings up the question for me though - what would be even an approximate way to get some sort of comparable count on a short term basis? Egg masses might work for some species. Maybe road crossings for migratory species if you could control for rain somehow? I'm having trouble thinking of something that could bring even close to as much consistency as counting birds.
Bird counts aren't any more consistent than herp counts. Birds are harder to see, move around, and are harder to identify for some people. I think just starting to collect the data is what is important. If you sampled the same area the same time every year for 20 years, you would be able to see a lot of patterns.

This has to be a long term project.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

I didn't want to make this a contest. If you want to compete, then by all means go for it. For me though it isn't about who can find the most number of animals or species. This is just a marketing tool to raise awareness and participation. I want ALL people to feel welcomed, from the 4th grader who likes catching toads at the local park to the most experienced field herper. I wanted a uniform set of dates, so that we could all be part of something bigger, and we could use those dates to promote ourselves. Plus, I wanted a period of time that was catchy, so that it could replicated year after year. I thought one day would be too short, so I went up to a week.

Chrish is right. The point is to be consistent over a long period of time, and yes weather can make a difference, but that's part of the gamble. The Christmas bird count doesn't halt if there is a blizzard in one part of the country. It is over 3 weeks, so perhaps we could expand, but to how big? I am amenable to perhaps 2 week. A catchy slogan could be Fourteen Days of Field Herping.

I am open to changing the dates too - I thought by June most places would be free of snow (excluding those parts of the far north or mountain tops that are virtually never free of snow). Also, there is a certain ring and marketability to June 1st. Its easy to remember, and this year is falls on a Sunday. It seems like a winner to me. But if June 1st is too early, can somebody suggest a better date? Perhaps August 1st would be better. That falls on a Friday this year, and Saturday next. That would make for 2 years with good start days. It is going to shift around some though. Maybe a better way of picking it is instead of setting dates, we say, the first full week of August, and let the dates fall where they may.

I'm not too concerned about prime herping times or past prime times. Each part of the country, for different species have different prime times. I don't think you could successfully accomplish this by trying to account for all variability. I'm concerned about a time that will maximize the number of participants. Cast a wide net. The key is momentum. If we set the stage right the first time, build a solid foundation (pick your metaphor), then we can continue this year after year.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by chrish »

captainjack0000 wrote:I didn't want to make this a contest. If you want to compete, then by all means go for it. For me though it isn't about who can find the most number of animals or species. This is just a marketing tool to raise awareness and participation. I want ALL people to feel welcomed, from the 4th grader who likes catching toads at the local park to the most experienced field herper.
I agree that the important thing is to get people out. But contests motivate some people.
I wanted a uniform set of dates, so that we could all be part of something bigger, and we could use those dates to promote ourselves. Plus, I wanted a period of time that was catchy, so that it could replicated year after year. I thought one day would be too short, so I went up to a week.


I don't disagree. Maybe for the first year, we make it the week of June 1st. Or maybe just the first weekend in June since for many people that's what you are really talking about?
How about every "June New Moon" and we schedule it for the first weekend closest to the new moon in June? That's how Snakedays is set up (for the May/June moon).
The Christmas bird count doesn't halt if there is a blizzard in one part of the country. It is over 3 weeks, so perhaps we could expand, but to how big? I am amenable to perhaps 2 week. A catchy slogan could be Fourteen Days of Field Herping.


I do see the value of having a "national herp day" sort of feel to it and I think that is the best idea for getting it started.

But since herps are relatively non-vagile there isn't any compelling data reason to all count at the same time like we do with birds.

Maybe after we get it established, we could set up a Spring Count, Summer Count, Fall Count, and Winter Count in each chapter? Each chapter will define the weekend for their official seasonal count based on their climate.

I'm in.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by chris_mcmartin »

captainjack0000 wrote:A catchy slogan could be Fourteen Days of Field Herping.
Even better, A Fortnight of Field Herping. That way, it educates on two levels (people unfamiliar will have to Google "What is Field Herping" and "What is a Fortnight." :lol:
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by hellihooks »

chris_mcmartin wrote:
captainjack0000 wrote:A catchy slogan could be Fourteen Days of Field Herping.
Even better, A Fortnight of Field Herping. That way, it educates on two levels (people unfamiliar will have to Google "What is Field Herping" and "What is a Fortnight." :lol:
EXACTLY what I was gonna say... it is uncanny how much great minds think alike... :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: jim
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

A Fortnight of Field Herping

I like this.

First week, first weekend, whatever it may be. I think for now I'll stick to June 1st since I haven't seen too many people jump on my August suggestion. Though 5-25 is kinda neat too. Late May/early June will hopefully be warm enough for most, but not dreadfully hot for others.

I could see this growing in a number of directions, with season herping weekends by the chapter as you suggest, or state, or even two counts a year, a spring and fall count. Let's not get ahead of ourselves though, we need to see how one of these unfolds first.

Either way, anybody want to offer up pics? Please PM me. I don't need many, but something representative would be nice. Or send me to your flickr page or whatever and I'll pick stuff that I like.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Tamara D. McConnell »

I don't know if I have any pictures that would be helpful, but you are welcome to go see. Tamaramcconnell1 at Flickr.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by ZantiMissKnit »

June is typically really good for herps up here in MA. I think that June and September are often our best months.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

Working on the flyer today.

-N
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Soopaman »

Obviously late to the discussion on this, but I'd have to side with Chris on the timing.

June 1st is great for some areas, but I'd be lucky to find more than a handful of snakes in East Texas in a week in June. In late March and early April I could find well over a hundred in a week.

Maybe for future events like this, timing could be more chapter oriented? The northeast chapter could do a week in June, while Southeast and South Central could do something much earlier (March/April).
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Noah M
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

Maybe for future events like this, timing could be more chapter oriented? The northeast chapter could do a week in June, while Southeast and South Central could do something much earlier (March/April).
Yeah, but that kinda defeats the purpose. The point is if we can't organize in space, then we can in time. No single week or two weeks, or maybe even month is going to be ideal for everybody in N. America, but I/we had to pick something. I think it would be neat if chapters organized seasonal events.

And it isn't just snakes we're looking for. Use this as an excuse to go herping, or organize that trip where you can show your friends what you do, or host a seminar explaining the importance of citizen science and that snakes aren't evil. It is a marketing tool as much as an attempt to fill HERP and other databases with data. Find a county in TX with few or no entries, and find common stuff there. Just because it is common now doesn't mean it will be later. Just ask a Carolina Parakeet.
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

Remember this?!?! I haven't forgotten about it. I plan to look over the data from this time period over my winter break and post results as well as organize the Second Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count.

If you haven't seen any action on this from me by the New Year, somebody kick me in the butt..... :lol:
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Re: First Annual NAFHA Summer Herp Count starts June 1st, 20

Post by Noah M »

Bumping this one up to the top just in case people are curious about the 1st one ;)
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