2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Moderator: Scott Waters
- Chris Smith
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- Location: Minnesota
2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Hello all,
Below is the link for member voting. It will show ONLY polls that are open to everyone, OR for chapters they are members of. If your chapter is not listed, it is because Don or I have not received a final list of nominees (please PM them to Don or I ASAP).
http://nafha.org/user/polls.php
Here is a link to information about each of the International Coordinator nominees.
http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... 32&t=14155
Please let Don or I know if there are any issues / concerns.
Thanks,
Chris
Below is the link for member voting. It will show ONLY polls that are open to everyone, OR for chapters they are members of. If your chapter is not listed, it is because Don or I have not received a final list of nominees (please PM them to Don or I ASAP).
http://nafha.org/user/polls.php
Here is a link to information about each of the International Coordinator nominees.
http://www.fieldherpforum.com/forum/vie ... 32&t=14155
Please let Don or I know if there are any issues / concerns.
Thanks,
Chris
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Nice work Don! I really like the system you have set up.
I only saw chapter voting. Has IC not been posted yet?
I only saw chapter voting. Has IC not been posted yet?
- Chris Smith
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- Location: Minnesota
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
IC will be posted shortly. Sorry for the delay!!spinifer wrote:Nice work Don! I really like the system you have set up.
I only saw chapter voting. Has IC not been posted yet?
-Chris
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I don't think it is working as planned.
Most importantly, I can't vote on the coolest herp and I would like to weigh the options. As it is (perhaps Chrome) you can click the selection and that's the end game. No chance to correct misplaced clicks, or yes or no for that matter.
Was George Bush Jr. involved in this setup?
Shane
Most importantly, I can't vote on the coolest herp and I would like to weigh the options. As it is (perhaps Chrome) you can click the selection and that's the end game. No chance to correct misplaced clicks, or yes or no for that matter.
Was George Bush Jr. involved in this setup?
Shane
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
These votes are not yes/no questions...? You select a candidate for a given position. In many cases candidates for a given position are running unopposed and you have to elect someone...
-Chris
-Chris
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Only poll I see is "What types of herps are the coolest". Am I missing something?
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
That means you are not in the system as a member of a chapter... Make sure you have a chapter listed in the user profile of your http://www.naherp.com account (at the top). If you do not, you need to have the chapter president add you to their chapter list. This is updated at midnight everyday.AtroxKR wrote:Only poll I see is "What types of herps are the coolest". Am I missing something?
-Chris
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
And then he has to ask his chapter president or secretary to add him.
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Also make sure your FHF username is in your database profile!
-Chris
-Chris
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Please clarify. NAFHA doesn't have to elect anyone. Is not voting the answer for no?These votes are not yes/no questions...? You select a candidate for a given position. In many cases candidates for a given position are running unopposed and you have to elect someone...
I'm glad to see that things are moving forward, but some tweaks are needed.
Shane
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
NAFHA as an organization does require electing officers (see the Bylaws).
If you do not like your options, consider running for office next time around...
-Chris
If you do not like your options, consider running for office next time around...
-Chris
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
What would that help? I have one vote, just like everyone else. And besides, I don't really care for kids like you in the IB position.If you do not like your options, consider running for office next time around...
Shane
- Daniel D Dye
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Chris, I meet all of the above and all I see is "What types of herps are the coolest" as well. What else could I be missing?Chris Smith wrote:That means you are not in the system as a member of a chapter... Make sure you have a chapter listed in the user profile of your http://www.naherp.com account (at the top). If you do not, you need to have the chapter president add you to their chapter list. This is updated at midnight everyday.AtroxKR wrote:Only poll I see is "What types of herps are the coolest". Am I missing something?
-Chris
Thanks,
Daniel
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Strange! Double check one more time for me please. You should see your chapter affiliations at the top of your user profile (see photo) and your FHF username at the bottom of the "Contact Info." section.Daniel D Dye wrote:Chris, I meet all of the above and all I see is "What types of herps are the coolest" as well. What else could I be missing?Chris Smith wrote:That means you are not in the system as a member of a chapter... Make sure you have a chapter listed in the user profile of your http://www.naherp.com account (at the top). If you do not, you need to have the chapter president add you to their chapter list. This is updated at midnight everyday.AtroxKR wrote:Only poll I see is "What types of herps are the coolest". Am I missing something?
-Chris
Thanks,
Daniel
If you recently added your FHF username, the database updates every night at midnight CST so you may need to wait a day and try again.
If everything looks correct, please PM me and I will look into it.
Thanks,
Chris
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Doh!! I should have known the issue... I have not received the list of official nominees from the SE Chapter and thus I didn't create the poll this evening.
Please have the SE Chapter President send me a list of nominees and Don or I will get it fixed tomorrow. Sorry for the delay!
Thanks!
Chris
P.s. We still need nominees for the NW, MX and Rocky Mountain Chapters. Thanks!
Please have the SE Chapter President send me a list of nominees and Don or I will get it fixed tomorrow. Sorry for the delay!
Thanks!
Chris
P.s. We still need nominees for the NW, MX and Rocky Mountain Chapters. Thanks!
- chris_mcmartin
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Can't log in to that site. I used the user name and password I use for naherp.com but got "invalid user name or password." I even changed my naherp.com password and it still doesn't work.44
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I can get into the site but see only the "coolest herp" poll and it is closed.
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I will have Don look into. Sorry for the inconvenience.chris_mcmartin wrote:Can't log in to that site. I used the user name and password I use for naherp.com but got "invalid user name or password." I even changed my naherp.com password and it still doesn't work.44
-Chris
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Raymond- What chapter are you in? Most likely your chapter poll has not been posted yet.Raymond McConnell wrote:I can get into the site but see only the "coolest herp" poll and it is closed.
-Chris
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Southeast.Raymond- What chapter are you in? Most likely your chapter poll has not been posted yet.
Thanks Chris.
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I somehow ended up using different user names for NAHERP.com and fieldherpforum.com. I have to login to fieldherpforum to vote.Can't log in to that site. I used the user name and password I use for naherp.com but got "invalid user name or password." I even changed my naherp.com password and it still doesn't work.44
- Don Becker
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
That doesn't matter for the polls on NAFHA.org.Chris Smith wrote:Also make sure your FHF username is in your database profile!
-Chris
- Daniel D Dye
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Good morning, Chris.
I got with Bill (BillMcGighan) about the list. He said he sent it to you and Don a few days ago.
Daniel
I got with Bill (BillMcGighan) about the list. He said he sent it to you and Don a few days ago.
Daniel
- Daniel D Dye
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
It's working fine now. I was able to log in and vote.
Thanks, Don and Chris.
Daniel
Thanks, Don and Chris.
Daniel
- chris_mcmartin
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Update to my login problems:
At first nafha.org told me "invalid username or password."
I updated my password on naherp.com.
When I reattempted logging in to nafha.org, it didn't give me the error message this time; just reset to the blank login screen. I figured something else may be amiss.
I enabled cookies for nafha.org. Problem solved. Some sites require cookies to log in, some don't. I set my default options to block cookies. I'm trying to lose weight.
At first nafha.org told me "invalid username or password."
I updated my password on naherp.com.
When I reattempted logging in to nafha.org, it didn't give me the error message this time; just reset to the blank login screen. I figured something else may be amiss.
I enabled cookies for nafha.org. Problem solved. Some sites require cookies to log in, some don't. I set my default options to block cookies. I'm trying to lose weight.
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
After each vote... I had to go back a page to get to the list of voting categories .... a bit cumbersome... but hey... I'm sure Don will rectify it... jim
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I had no problems voting.
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
That was cute. Are you Don's boss these days?Chris Smith wrote:I will have Don look into. Sorry for the inconvenience.chris_mcmartin wrote:Can't log in to that site. I used the user name and password I use for naherp.com but got "invalid user name or password." I even changed my naherp.com password and it still doesn't work.44
-Chris
And again mr. IC, is there any particular reason that I can't use the "change vote" button when only one candidate exists? What is the fundamental reason for the ability to change a vote? And since it exists, why can't I uncheck a single option?
Shane
P.S. I don't expect a response, just a slightly more precise door on your way out.
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I too would like to see yes/no options where there is only one candidate. As it is... only those who approve get to cast a vote, which yields 100% approval. I doubt that is in fact, the case. jim
- Don Becker
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I don't take the time to read through most of the stuff on the forums lately, so Chris fills me in on what ever the issues are.Shane_TX wrote:That was cute. Are you Don's boss these days?
What exactly would you change it to, and what would it matter? If only one person is running, and they vote for themselves, then they would win the election.And again mr. IC, is there any particular reason that I can't use the "change vote" button when only one candidate exists? What is the fundamental reason for the ability to change a vote? And since it exists, why can't I uncheck a single option?
What would the course of action be if the majority voted "No". Would that position just not exist for the year? If it is a position that is required, like the president, then what is the alternative? If people didn't step up to run for the position, what makes you think they would suddenly volunteer? Maybe the chapters should get a 75% consensus on who is going to fill the positions before putting it forward to a vote.I too would like to see yes/no options where there is only one candidate.
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I'm sure the single candidates will carry enough votes to gain the office, but lest they get 'swollen heads' from their '100%'s... it would likely help if they knew exactly where they stand with the membership.psyon wrote: What would the course of action be if the majority voted "No". Would that position just not exist for the year? If it is a position that is required, like the president, then what is the alternative? If people didn't step up to run for the position, what makes you think they would suddenly volunteer? Maybe the chapters should get a 75% consensus on who is going to fill the positions before putting it forward to a vote.
Also... having the right to 'not vote', is NOT the same as having the right TO vote 'yes OR no', as only the yes votes are counted. The 'no's' may be a minority... but are in effect... a silenced minority.
EVERYONE should have the right to have their say... not just the people on the bandwagon. 'Democratically' speaking... it's a pretty major flaw. jim
In fact... WHY even have a percentage rating, when the only possible outcome is 100%? I think a candidate who gains say... a 75% approval, NEEDS to know he has some work to do... and is not in fact, infallible.
Another fact: Vote-- A formal expression of opinion or choice, either positive or negative, made by an individual or body of individuals
What you have given us does not even qualify as a 'Vote' so does not satisfy the voting statutes of the bylaws. How is it that no one else ever sees these things?
Nafha 2013--- A flock of sheeple, led by the oblivious...
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Wow...hellihooks wrote:I'm sure the single candidates will carry enough votes to gain the office, but lest they get 'swollen heads' from their '100%'s... it would likely help if they knew exactly where they stand with the membership.psyon wrote: What would the course of action be if the majority voted "No". Would that position just not exist for the year? If it is a position that is required, like the president, then what is the alternative? If people didn't step up to run for the position, what makes you think they would suddenly volunteer? Maybe the chapters should get a 75% consensus on who is going to fill the positions before putting it forward to a vote.
Also... having the right to 'not vote', is NOT the same as having the right TO vote 'yes OR no', as only the yes votes are counted. The 'no's' may be a minority... but are in effect... a silenced minority.
EVERYONE should have the right to have their say... not just the people on the bandwagon. 'Democratically' speaking... it's a pretty major flaw. jim
In fact... WHY even have a percentage rating, when the only possible outcome is 100%? I think a candidate who gains say... a 75% approval, NEEDS to know he has some work to do... and is not in fact, infallible.
Another fact: Vote-- A formal expression of opinion or choice, either positive or negative, made by an individual or body of individuals
What you have given us does not even qualify as a 'Vote' so does not satisfy the voting statutes of the bylaws. How is it that no one else ever sees these things?
Nafha 2013--- A flock of sheeple, led by the oblivious...
-Chris
P.s. NAFHA is facing bigger issues... Why not re-direct some of this energy.
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
"Please let Don or I know if there are any issues / concerns."Chris Smith wrote: P.s. NAFHA is facing bigger issues... Why not re-direct some of this energy.
Uhhhh.. you asked? I think not actually fitting the definition of a 'vote' is a concern. IF... the bylaws mean anything at all. Or... we can just continue pretending words mean what we want them to mean. You ASKED if there were any 'problems'... so...
You guys do what you want. jim
- Chris Smith
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
As has been stated above. Voting "No" when there is only one candidate doesn't do NAFHA any good (would do more harm than good IMO). We NEED to fill the position(s) and a vote of "no" confidence isn't the most productive way of starting 2013 IMO. We need to be positive and give these people a chance. This continual negative bickering IS the biggest problem facing NAFHA IMO. Free speech is all fine and dandy but we need constructive criticism NOT this back-and-forth BS.hellihooks wrote:"Please let Don or I know if there are any issues / concerns."Chris Smith wrote: P.s. NAFHA is facing bigger issues... Why not re-direct some of this energy.
Uhhhh.. you asked? I think not actually fitting the definition of a 'vote' is a concern. IF... the bylaws mean anything at all. Or... we can just continue pretending words mean what we want them to mean. You ASKED if there were any 'problems'... so...
You guys do what you want. jim
If you and/or others do not like having options (which I can understand) then "we" ALL need to do a better job getting people involved.
-Chris
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
And meanwhile... all the professionals we're supposedly trying to 'unite with', who may want to see how Nafha is run, before joining... look at stuff like this and think...what a Joke... not only do they not follow their own bylaws... they don't even know what words 'mean'...
I'd say Nafha's most serious problem is the 'Brain drain' occurring... but that's another topic. You ASKED for issues/concerns, on this 'vote'.... It's not by definition, a vote. Sorry I don't want to play along in your 'for the greater good' games. I'm gonna stick to being honest. Like I say... do what you want. I've said what I need to say, and am done arguing. jim
I'd say Nafha's most serious problem is the 'Brain drain' occurring... but that's another topic. You ASKED for issues/concerns, on this 'vote'.... It's not by definition, a vote. Sorry I don't want to play along in your 'for the greater good' games. I'm gonna stick to being honest. Like I say... do what you want. I've said what I need to say, and am done arguing. jim
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Jim, I dont get it. In a government election when a candidate runs unopposed there is no choice for "no" in the polling booth. Or at least ive never seen it. How is this any different? And also you're right, its not a vote. It is labeled as a "poll" on the NAFHA page.You ASKED for issues/concerns, on this 'vote'.... It's not by definition, a vote.
- chris_mcmartin
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
hellihooks wrote:And meanwhile... all the professionals we're supposedly trying to 'unite with', who may want to see how Nafha is run, before joining... look at stuff like this and think...what a Joke...
Do these professionals concern themselves more with the administrative side of NAFHA, or what the organization does? Honest question; I don't know what "all the professionals" think.
I need names.I'd say Nafha's most serious problem is the 'Brain drain' occurring... but that's another topic.
I'm not privy to the inner workings of the organization so I don't know that this even a problem, let alone a serious one.
If you were to ask the average field herper (not necessarily one affiliated with NAFHA or even FHF) what they thought of NAFHA, what are the likely answers you would get? (I took a stab at ordering them based on proportion of people giving a listed answer):
1. What's NAFHA?
2. It's an organization that runs the naherp database.
A distant 3. It's a network of a few tight-knit folks (some may even say a clique) who get together and go herping.
What I'm trying to say is that from my perspective, there seems to be much finagling over what by and large are relatively minor concerns. Outsiders MAY pay attention to such finagling, but it shouldn't overshadow what NAFHA does. Of course, I could be way off base.
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Jim, in this case I have to agree with the others.
In a democratic vote where a candidate runs unopposed, any number of votes means he wins. If people really don't want that candidate, they need to nominate an opponent. Absent that, they have chosen to accept the inevitable outcome that the one and only candidate will win the election.
If that seems like a strange outcome because the winner may actually not be who the majority wants, it is no different than in any election. Often the majority of people in the US don't vote in presidential elections. So, by definition, the elected president carries a mandate from only a (sometimes small) minority of his constituency. To avoid this outcome, people have to participate in a democracy, whether by voting, or by nominating candidates or running for office.
Having said that, I could well understand if a candidate made a personal decision to opt for a yes/no vote, to ascertain how much support he really has. If his supporters turned out to be fewer than his opponents, he might decide not take office because he's just not motivated to represent only a minority. If I personally ran for office, I would probably want to opt in for that reason.
The problem with offering this option in a chapter presidential election would be that it could possibly lead to decertification of the chapter. If so, everyone in the chapter would lose, a loss that would not be offset by any benefit I can see. To argue otherwise would basically be to say, "We'd rather see the ship go down than listen to the captain."
I think that this sort of thing is perfectly normal for a young, underpopulated organization like NAFHA. We are not the Audoban Society, at least not yet. So, let's just work with what we have got and not get carried away with too many technical details. Following our bylaws is, of course, a must. But I really don't see any bylaw violation in this case.
Just another instance, I guess, where friends choose to respectfully disagree
Robert
In a democratic vote where a candidate runs unopposed, any number of votes means he wins. If people really don't want that candidate, they need to nominate an opponent. Absent that, they have chosen to accept the inevitable outcome that the one and only candidate will win the election.
If that seems like a strange outcome because the winner may actually not be who the majority wants, it is no different than in any election. Often the majority of people in the US don't vote in presidential elections. So, by definition, the elected president carries a mandate from only a (sometimes small) minority of his constituency. To avoid this outcome, people have to participate in a democracy, whether by voting, or by nominating candidates or running for office.
Having said that, I could well understand if a candidate made a personal decision to opt for a yes/no vote, to ascertain how much support he really has. If his supporters turned out to be fewer than his opponents, he might decide not take office because he's just not motivated to represent only a minority. If I personally ran for office, I would probably want to opt in for that reason.
The problem with offering this option in a chapter presidential election would be that it could possibly lead to decertification of the chapter. If so, everyone in the chapter would lose, a loss that would not be offset by any benefit I can see. To argue otherwise would basically be to say, "We'd rather see the ship go down than listen to the captain."
I think that this sort of thing is perfectly normal for a young, underpopulated organization like NAFHA. We are not the Audoban Society, at least not yet. So, let's just work with what we have got and not get carried away with too many technical details. Following our bylaws is, of course, a must. But I really don't see any bylaw violation in this case.
Just another instance, I guess, where friends choose to respectfully disagree
Robert
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
At most... it's a 'vote of confidence', when only 'yes' votes are counted... and the 100% is insulting to those who would have voted no. I'm all for majority rule, but don't deny the minorities their say, or worse (as in this case) treat them like they don't even exist.
'For the Greater Good' is a utilitarian concept at odds with true democratic processes, which are what the bylaws were supposed to insure, for a 'member-driven' group. In this case, only 'some' members get to express their views. If that's what everyone wants... change the bylaws to reflect that, for future years. Doing it before the bylaws allow it, will be seen by as bypassing and/or ignoring the bylaws, which detracts from Nafha's creditability.
Nate... in a typical election, where only one candidate is nominated... you have to register to vote and the ratio of registered voters to 'yes' votes produces the approval percentage, rather than '100% of those who voted, chose the only option'. That's just an insult to intelligence. And I'm not sure which is worse... if it was unintentional, or intentional. Neither is encouraging.
I'll make this one last point, which I hope many of you will recognize as true. Every single thing an individual or group does has 'philosophical underpinnings' or 'foundations'. You cannot erode foundations and expect a building to stand. Without strong foundations the building WILL crumble. Keep our 'foundations' strong, by carefully considering how each action we take, affects them. MORE than anything else... this SHOULD be the IC's job. jim
PS... I apologize to anyone I offended with my 'bluntness', yesterday. I admit to having a very bad day, due to personal problems. Suffice it to say, that while I've never before sued anyone, in my life...I will be suing the $#!^ out of a BUNCH of people...
Edit.. Don... is there any way we can see how elections are going in Chapters other than our own?
'For the Greater Good' is a utilitarian concept at odds with true democratic processes, which are what the bylaws were supposed to insure, for a 'member-driven' group. In this case, only 'some' members get to express their views. If that's what everyone wants... change the bylaws to reflect that, for future years. Doing it before the bylaws allow it, will be seen by as bypassing and/or ignoring the bylaws, which detracts from Nafha's creditability.
Nate... in a typical election, where only one candidate is nominated... you have to register to vote and the ratio of registered voters to 'yes' votes produces the approval percentage, rather than '100% of those who voted, chose the only option'. That's just an insult to intelligence. And I'm not sure which is worse... if it was unintentional, or intentional. Neither is encouraging.
I'll make this one last point, which I hope many of you will recognize as true. Every single thing an individual or group does has 'philosophical underpinnings' or 'foundations'. You cannot erode foundations and expect a building to stand. Without strong foundations the building WILL crumble. Keep our 'foundations' strong, by carefully considering how each action we take, affects them. MORE than anything else... this SHOULD be the IC's job. jim
PS... I apologize to anyone I offended with my 'bluntness', yesterday. I admit to having a very bad day, due to personal problems. Suffice it to say, that while I've never before sued anyone, in my life...I will be suing the $#!^ out of a BUNCH of people...
Edit.. Don... is there any way we can see how elections are going in Chapters other than our own?
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I agree with Jim that the 100% thing should not be there. Probably just an oversight, so maybe Don can delete it.
Robert
Robert
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
When is the election over?
Where can we expect to see results posted?
Also, I agree with Jim on the 100% thing. Next election cycle, if only one candidate is on the ballot there should be a yes and a no option. This way that officer will know what sort of "mandate" he will have in the coming year.
Dave
Where can we expect to see results posted?
Also, I agree with Jim on the 100% thing. Next election cycle, if only one candidate is on the ballot there should be a yes and a no option. This way that officer will know what sort of "mandate" he will have in the coming year.
Dave
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Dave- the voting ends 12-21-12 at midnight. It's at the bottom of each page.
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
The same time the world ends, how convenient.dery wrote:Dave- the voting ends 12-21-12 at midnight. It's at the bottom of each page.
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
Oh the Irony of it all..The same time the world ends, how convenient.
Fundad
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Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
I think 'apt' is a more suitable term... and not a damn thing funny about it.
Re: 2013 NAFHA Voting!!
The only end of the world that's going to happen is the ever constant trip all organisms take to this world and to the afterlife. The end of the world will happen when the sun dies out millions of years from now. Then there will be a new green planet formed.